Israel: what is the REALISTIC solution?

[4U2IMI8]

Originally Posted by taifoon

When in your opinion will the US power weaken? I see no reasonable time table for this to happen. The only and smartest way to beat Israel with is to make FAIR PEACE with Israel. An Israel at peace and surrounded by peaceful neighbours is like having a scorpion encircled inside a ring of fire. You'll make it bring its own end to itself.

Fair and Israel are antonyms ya Tai,
Very few know that during the 2006 war, there were incursions by resistance forces into Palestine. Villages were taken and held for hours at a time. They were test runs for the next war with Israel. Those incursions contributed in a major way to the moral deterioration of the elite Israeli soldiers. The Israeli army knew right than and there that they met their match and that the next war was for their existence. I wrote about this right after the July war, and the coming days will prove my words.

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

You are forgetting one major difference between the Lebanese and the Israeli's. The Lebanese are not living on a land that does not belong to them while the Israeli's are, if you believe in justice you will believe their state will cease to exist. If you are still young, in your 20's ya3ni, then I assure you if you live a long life you will see the end of this fake entity.

Patience.

Ya khayyé Israel may live on partly occupied land,
don't forget that the palestinians aren't asking for Israel to leave, they're just asking it to go back to the limits before 1967 or 68...


Now the thing is, Israel is here and strong enough not to be removed in any way.
Let's try to find a way to live with it.

The americans and the canadians are living on lands stolen by the indians.....
Should the indians keep on fighting in order to remove them from their land ?

Look at them ....how are they living now ?

[FBM]

Isreal isnt the problem, its our leaders(the problem)....

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by 4U2IMI8

Fair and Israel are antonyms ya Tai,
Very few know that during the 2006 war, there were incursions by resistance forces into Palestine. Villages were taken and held for hours at a time. They were test runs for the next war with Israel. Those incursions contributed in a major way to the moral deterioration of the elite Israeli soldiers. The Israeli army knew right than and there that they met their match and that the next war was for their existence. I wrote about this right after the July war, and the coming days will prove my words.

hey, long time no read U, 4U. Welcome back :)

This is why I explicitly wrote FAIR. We know that at least neither hizballah nor the hamas palestinians will settle for less than a FAIR PEACE. And the opposite is true for the Israelis, if peace is a NO for them, a FAIR peace is a definite NO NO.

They know it, even better than you and I know, that having to trade back all the occupied lands and giving up their wet expansionist dreams for a piece of worthless paper, called peace, will not yield them the economical equivalency of those precious things already in pocket.

Nonetheless, even if FAIR PEACE may seem farther away now than ever, I believe this is the most effective weapon you are able to ultimately beat the Israelis with (even though I admire your high "resisting" spirit that makes you think that by infiltrating few villages in northern Israel, you'll be able to finish it off, in due time. I personally do not think you will, simply because the precious blood and will of steel of few brave men may be good enough to stop an overwhelming war machinery from kicking us around or out of our land.. Not to kick them however, out of the land they already sit on)

[4U2IMI8]

Originally Posted by taifoon

hey, long time no read U, 4U. Welcome back :)

This is why I explicitly wrote FAIR. We know that at least neither hizballah nor the hamas palestinians will settle for less than a FAIR PEACE. And the opposite is true for the Israelis, if peace, is a NO for them, a FAIR peace is a definite NO NO.

They know it, even better than you and I know, that having to trade back all the occupied lands and giving up their wet expansionist dreams for a piece of worthless paper, called peace, will not yield them the economical equivalency of those precious things already in pocket.

Nonetheless, even if FAIR PEACE may seem farther away now than ever, I believe this is the most effective weapon you are able to ultimately beat the Israelis with (even though I admire your high "resisting" spirit that makes you think that by infiltrating few villages in northern Israel, you'll be able to finish it off, in due time. I personally do not think you will, simply because the precious blood and will of steel of few brave men may be good enough to stop an overwhelming war machinery from kicking us around or out of our land.. Not to kick them however, out of the land they already sit on)

A lengthy reply is in order here.

Israel will not trade off what it took by force for peace. Peace for Israel is a disease it cannot fight. The whole existence of the state of Israel is dependant on its war machine striving and evolving continuously. When that machine is deemed unnecessary, the state which is built around it will be invalid.
Whatever peace deals the Arabs may muster to satisfy the Israelis, there will always be more demands from the other side. Many Arabic countries are willing to trade their dignities for a semblance of peace, yet there are fighting cells that will always reject that concept.
My words neither were nor meant to be poetic, nor were they wishful in thinking. I state facts as I know them, I think that is why my posts carry a certain level of excitement in them.
The facts are very clear to see for those who seek them. HA is really misunderstood, and underestimated by many and this is by design not by chance. The capabilities that they possess are mind boggling to say the least. What we saw during the 33 day war in July of 2006 was nothing but the tip of the iceberg lurking on the shadows of ambiguity that surrounds us. The war machine that is the state of Israel may be overwhelming, cold and calculating, but we are too.
My spirit is resisting yet I’m under no illusion of the things that we are capable of or incapable of achieving. I gave you the gist of things to come; the details are always more involved. Knowing some facts gives me an advantage of seeing a different picture than what many can see. That fact alone and the logical flow of events lead me to conclude certain events as definite. Maybe in future posts I will be participating more and revealing some small things that will give you a general idea of the capabilities that will face the “undefeated army”, and the people it represents.

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by 4U2IMI8

A lengthy reply is in order here.

Israel will not trade off what it took by force for peace. Peace for Israel is a disease it cannot fight. The whole existence of the state of Israel is dependant on its war machine striving and evolving continuously. When that machine is deemed unnecessary, the state which is built around it will be invalid.
Whatever peace deals the Arabs may muster to satisfy the Israelis, there will always be more demands from the other side. Many Arabic countries are willing to trade their dignities for a semblance of peace, yet there are fighting cells that will always reject that concept.
My words neither were nor meant to be poetic, nor were they wishful in thinking. I state facts as I know them, I think that is why my posts carry a certain level of excitement in them.
The facts are very clear to see for those who seek them. HA is really misunderstood, and underestimated by many and this is by design not by chance. The capabilities that they possess are mind boggling to say the least. What we saw during the 33 day war in July of 2006 was nothing but the tip of the iceberg lurking on the shadows of ambiguity that surrounds us. The war machine that is the state of Israel may be overwhelming, cold and calculating, but we are too.
My spirit is resisting yet I’m under no illusion of the things that we are capable of or incapable of achieving. I gave you the gist of things to come; the details are always more involved. Knowing some facts gives me an advantage of seeing a different picture than what many can see. That fact alone and the logical flow of events lead me to conclude certain events as definite. Maybe in future posts I will be participating more and revealing some small things that will give you a general idea of the capabilities that will face the “undefeated army”, and the people it represents.

Looking forward for the details you find fit to reveal about what Hizbullah can achieve. To me, I have no doubt about their WILL to beat the Israelis butt into unrecognition, at least if they dared to rethink a come back to the south.

Anyways, it seems you also agree that Peace for Israel is poison, since its whole socio-economical and cultural dynamics run around this industry of war and war-survival related history aas well as presence. How hard is it then for us to work forward a long term strategy whereby the fruits of resistance can be smartly invested into making an ultimate suffocating peace with the Israelis? Unless of course you do insist on the possible outlook that Hizballah have the means to win an ultimate victory through raw war against the Israelis. In that case, I am much interested in the details you promised above, just in case, and in order to know how fast should I start packing, or not..

[shadow1]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

Takhanta 2060, you need to be more optimistic than this, my answer would be approximately 2020-30, so we might get to see the day, grab the popcorn, sit back and watch.

You are confusing the fate of the christians of Lebanon with that of the Israelis. If you say the christians will be done and dusted by 2020-30 I fully agree with you but Israel is a country and not a tribe.

[dodzi]

This poll shows how irrealistic both sides are about the conflict.

I chose the 4th option.

First of all, it is impossible for any force in the Arab world today to eliminate Israel. They can defend their territory, just like HA did in 2006, but no force will ever be able to enter more than 10s of meters within the Israeli territory! We tried it before and we failed.

Secondly, Israel is capable of hitting the resistance very hard, but the ideology is so strong (and wars make them stronger), that neither moderates will take over, nor will Israel be able to destroy the resistance entirely.

In the long run, both will realize that, and they will also realize the benefits of creating a solution where both can be considered winners: Israel will want peace and cooperative neighbours, and the Palestinians will want economic benefits, social development, security and autonomy.

Israel AND the resistance will remain!

[Abufijli]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Ya khayyé Israel may live on partly occupied land,
don't forget that the palestinians aren't asking for Israel to leave, they're just asking it to go back to the limits before 1967 or 68...


Now the thing is, Israel is here and strong enough not to be removed in any way.
Let's try to find a way to live with it.

The americans and the canadians are living on lands stolen by the indians.....
Should the indians keep on fighting in order to remove them from their land ?

Look at them ....how are they living now ?

That is a myth, Israel is not strong enough to stay here forever, and all the arabs know that the only way to deal with it is by force, what is taken by force can only be taken back by force. Peace for Israel=destruction, they know that and hat is why they are working hard against such a thing, who in their right mind would reject the Arab peace proposal? Unless you are hell bent on expanding.

As for the Indians, and the Aboriginies in Australia, they have every right to fight for their land, and how are they living today? They do not exist in America or Australia, they are a people who have been conquered, murdered, and wiped from existence, is that a good life?

[JOlsson]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

How can you be so blind? Take a look at the map and you will get a good isea why a 2 state solution will not work. How will the people of Gaza reach the West Bank? And if you think Israel is going to make them a road you are dreaming, the 2 state solution is just a dream to keep people lost.

That's because you don't see the problem that you're part of. I see no difference between your opinion and any Israeli who want Israel to border the river Jordan and being devoid of Arab Palestinians.

It is not about roads, it's about the commitment towards a two-state solution.