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Originally Posted by e.kid  In short: Cairo Agreement
In Long: Muslims (mostly sunnis at that time) refused to let the army take care of palestinian actions
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Demographic changes made muslims ask for more that 5-6 repeated |
Well yes if u wanna put it this way .... this is one of the direct reasons since it gave the PLO a sort of an independence which allowed it to operate without restrictions inside the lebanese state.... but if u wanna look deeper into this and ask urself why was there pressure on Lebanon to give the palestinians freedom of movement within Lebanon ..... things will become more complicated... but for the sake of this thread i guess allowing the PLO to form their own state within Lebanon is the direct reason since they wanted to take over the country... And the Lebanese stupidity caused by sectarianism prevented the army from controlling them.... since any attempt to hit them by the army was viewd as a christian attack against the muslims....
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Originally Posted by e.kid Why did we accept it ? |
Well u have to ask the ones who were in power then, namely the christian right wing parties....they made a crime against Lebanon in general and the christians in particular.... we are still paying the price to this day....they showed the best example in political stupidity and still doing the same mistakes to this day.... and unfortunately people still support them depsite the bad experiences .....
there was no FPM at this phase but there was a Michel Aoun and i think his military record in the 70's shows what type of men he is.....
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Originally Posted by e.kid I dont care about what saad wants
I personaly dont think Israel will ever accept the return, weapons or no weapons.
So the weapons as a barganing chip is no enough, it wont achieve the return |
Maybe it will maybe it won't..... but it is the best option we have.... at least we have something to bargain with... so unless u can offer an alternative.. of course a better one ... the weapons are the best option... without them we'll be like sitting ducks at this stage.... our political opponents say they want to take the weapons without stating how... without offering an alternative.. and now they don't want to discuss them anymore ehh walla 7ayyarouna !!!! with all due respect but this is becoming stupid.... it is clear from their behavior that they don't give a rat's *ss about the country... they talk or shut up when they are told to do so....so again, if u think it is not enough, we are ready to hear the alternatives, u are allowed to refuse anything u want but u have to come up with an alternative.
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Originally Posted by e.kid The problem is that #3 is tooo vague
If someone is of "mauvaise foi", N3 will never be achieved
And, if someone is of "mauvaise foi", he will make the "formulation" impossible, for whatever goal/purpose |
with this logic, u can apply the mauvaise foi to any issue, not just to this one....u have to try before judging the good will of others.... we proposed a defense strategy.... and i think ja3ja3 proposed one too.... but for some reason the debate about it stopped...which is weird.... .on this point too... if u refuse it plz offer an alternative.... at the end of the day FPM Loves this country we want solutions regardless of where they come from... we are putting a lot of effort to come up with ideas and plans, and when they get refused we are neither told the reason nor the alternative....even though FPM and GMA stated many times that we are open for suggestions but for God's sake make ones...
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Originally Posted by e.kid I realy think the US has better places than lebanon to protect/control the OIl in the Gulf |
No not really Lebanon is of utmost importance, we are like a little kid that everyone wants to control....Lebanon borders the oil reservoirs, do u think the USA would allow its oppenents to control it ?? make an analogy with Iraq look at all the troubles Iran and Syria were able to cause just because they are at a geographical proximity with Iraq, so consider controlling Lebanon as a sort of securing the borders of the USA's areas of influence..In addition don't forget that lebanon has Oil but at the moment we are not allowed to extract it.... politically speaking.... Iran has a Card in Lebanon which is a direct threat to Israel, so USA and KSA want to at Least have some sort of power inside Lebanon and they have a lot.... u have the palestinians who are a big problem..... the USA wants control in Lebanon through its allies to settle them.... and the list goes on.....
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Originally Posted by e.kid They already did
now what ? |
they did, nataniyaho said it ... so do u still have any doubt about the issue ?? our duty is to be active as much as we can to try to prevent it.... we can't stay aside like u mentioned..... we have to come up with a strategy but so far all i am hearing is bashing of anyone who comes up with a potential solution....
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Originally Posted by e.kid Good, i support FPM for that
but please clarify #3 above so we can join, even though i think sheb3a is not worth a single drop of blood. |
Already talked about point #3, there nothing to clarfiy.... in this point, FPM is admitting that the issue of Israeli threats needs to be discussed on a national level .. what's so wrong about that ?? why all the attacks ? we are inviting everyone for a constructive debate and in return all we hear is bashing.... in short this is a national issue that needs a solution agreed upon by all national factions....
The sheb3a issue is a matter of principle, it is part of Lebanon..... and in this matter all solutions are being tried, Lebanon has tried and still trying diplomatic solutions with the UN and the weapons are still present as a reminder.... so what else can we do ? i am with using all available means, of course i am against waging a war because of them but i think the presence of the weapons will be very helpful in case of any negotiations....
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Originally Posted by e.kid Wartime is behind us (or at least, should be)
There are more important questions about the future that needs to be answered/resolved
the questions cannot be resolved when one of the party is armed and the rest of the country is not
Before we get to that, we need to resolve #3
Let the Army take care of the defense stuff |
War is over, but History must not be forgotten, History is not made to be repeated but to be learned from....u can't understand what's going on now unless u know ur history very well but unfortunately this is not the case of the majority of the lebanese people..... if our politicians learn from the past many mistakes wouldn't be happening.... we can't have a future unless we study our past since we are facing many similar situations, some problems have been present for the past 50-60 years.....
concerning the weapons, again we are the ones who want to discuss them but it is the the master of 14 feb sheikh Saad who doesn't want to discuss them anymore.... so u should ask a 14 FEBer about this.... again i tell u .... we offered our solutions we have a defense strategy that was refused for no concrete reasons.... once u guys tell us about the mistakes in our proposals maybe then we can discuss better solutions.....
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Originally Posted by e.kid Lebanon achieved its best days during the 48-68 period
No reason it wont happen again |
Don't be fooled by the economic boom during this period particularly During camille cham3oun's era..... it was because the USA was throwing tons of money on us to keep Lebanon away from communism (the cold war), i am sure ur grandparents told you about how the americans used to buy all our apple crops and then the people used to see them throwing the apples from the ships into the sea, i am sure they also told you about how much money the Marines used to spend in Lebanon, their administration used to give them money and send them here telling them that they have to spend it all....So the boom wasn't because of our hard work, neither because we were so politically clever at that time and then suddenly we stopped being so..... we have always been politically stupid (the christians in general and the maronites in particular) and never worked for our interests.....and in my opinion for the first time a clever leader is available but unfortunately a big chunk of the people inherited the stupidity genes.....
6th July 2009
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