Hariri's plan for Lebanon: did its end begin?

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by CedarLb

1. Do you remember who said that "Lebanon is a historical mistake that should be eliminated"?
   
2. Do you remember who wanted to ship the Christians from Lebanon to setlle them in "L'île du prince Edouard"?
   
3. Do you remember who wanted to liberate Jerusalem from Jounieh? and who were his allies? and who funded these allies?

What about your perception of the Saudi/Hariri plan for Lebanon?

1- Sure is a huge mistake, or is it not? It's a horrific mistake. The division of nations is treason. Those who divided back then were the hands of the western plan which is still live and kicking in Valentines boots.
2- The US.
3- Arafat funded by the same people who funded the Kataeb.

So, if you are to take the crisis back to that time, I'd have to say that both parties were being used. Phalangism and all those who danced to its tune were more dangerous than Arafat and even Zion himself. The average phalangist joe back then was what a hateful FM joe is now; brainwashed, driven by blind sectarian hate and nothing more, and of course not knowing whom he's siding with.

There were many positive things to the war back then (not that war is a positive thing in general) and whoever fought the racist sectarian christian movement needs a medal of honour for patriotism. Then of course you also had the racist sectarian Palestinian movement which was also dangerous. Now history is repeating itself; the Kataeb and LF are still what they were; and just as Gemayel was, Hariri is.

Moving on to Hariri's plan for Lebanon... In short, establishing a Saudi grip on the nation, thereby turning it into a brothel for Saudis first and a slave to the west as is the situation with all but a few Arab/Middle Eastern countries. Idiocy is as radiant as the sun beaming out of the heads of those who are blind (in the head) to notice the (very noticeable but to idiots) fact that KSA is the greatest ally of America, i.e. Israel. So, the interest of KSA and all those who are funded by it (St Valentine) is that of America and Israel. Some Valentinos flaunt the Zion tattoo with honour, while others don't have a freaking clue that they've had it marked with the finest American/Israeli ink.

On a side note; the saying "liberate Jerusalem from Jounieh" is spot on considering that the truth is that the Israeli plan needed to be liberated from those who loved Israel. Just think of it. Didn't nearly all Christians support Bachir who was a Zionist? We'd be fools if we deny that the majority of Christians DID NOT SEE an enemy in Israel, but rather a friend. Don't let what Arafat said intimidate you, the man was speaking wisdom. Of course now things have changed thanks to many wise people.

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

1- Sure is a huge mistake, or is it not? It's a horrific mistake. The division of nations is treason. Those who divided back then were the hands of the western plan which is still live and kicking in Valentines boots.
2- The US.
3- Arafat funded by the same people who funded the Kataeb.

So, if you are to take the crisis back to that time, I'd have to say that both parties were being used. Phalangism and all those who danced to its tune were more dangerous than Arafat and even Zion himself. The average phalangist joe back then was what a hateful FM joe is now; brainwashed, driven by blind sectarian hate and nothing more, and of course not knowing whom he's siding with.

There were many positive things to the war back then (not that war is a positive thing in general) and whoever fought the racist sectarian christian movement needs a medal of honour for patriotism. Then of course you also had the racist sectarian Palestinian movement which was also dangerous. Now history is repeating itself; the Kataeb and LF are still what they were; and just as Gemayel was, Hariri is.

Moving on to Hariri's plan for Lebanon... In short, establishing a Saudi grip on the nation, thereby turning it into a brothel for Saudis first and a slave to the west as is the situation with all but a few Arab/Middle Eastern countries. Idiocy is as radiant as the sun beaming out of the heads of those who are blind (in the head) to notice the (very noticeable but to idiots) fact that KSA is the greatest ally of America, i.e. Israel. So, the interest of KSA and all those who are funded by it (St Valentine) is that of America and Israel. Some Valentinos flaunt the Zion tattoo with honour, while others don't have a freaking clue that they've had it marked with the finest American/Israeli ink.

On a side note; the saying "liberate Jerusalem from Jounieh" is spot on considering that the truth is that the Israeli plan needed to be liberated from those who loved Israel. Just think of it. Didn't nearly all Christians support Bachir who was a Zionist? We'd be fools if we deny that the majority of Christians DID NOT SEE an enemy in Israel, but rather a friend. Don't let what Arafat said intimidate you, the man was speaking wisdom. Of course now things have changed thanks to many wise people.

Despite your attempt to cover it ya Dalzi, resorting to the same anti-phalangists anti-Bashir curses of yours, after adding racist christians to them, reveals more of your own fossilized status, stuck at own sectarian cave. At those dark times, there was not two parties, the phalangists and the palees. There was a cocktail of fractions from all colors and faiths incited to engage one another in a death match. Do not belittle the "zionist" nature of Amal, Hizbollah, Ishtirakiyyoun, SSNP, Mourabitoun, Nasiriyoun, lebanese yasar in addition to Mr Yasser's, when it comes to feeding our civil war with blood and death.

If you like to dig up the deads from their graves make sure you bring them all back, brothers and sisters of their own time and space. As much as you feel, and always felt targeted by a foreign hostile entity like the Israelis, and at times also by the palestinians themselves, you had better understand, for the sake of not repeating the mistakes, the christians position back then.

Racism and Zionism is when a bunch of armed crooks, who were smashed like harmful bugs in Jordan and thrown into Lebanon to take it over instead, gets applauded and directly supported by another bunch of lebanese crooks who see their chance to avenge past political injustice against their fellow christian lebanese.

Take this for granted: Under the same conditions, when my life, my family's life and my land is at stake, I, together with one million of my alikes, christians or muslims, would be another Bashir. Even though I personally never liked the guy, never mind for much simpler and different reasons than those you bear, I see that he was much less of a racist and zionist than those who teamed up with foreigners, being them palestinians, soumali or syrians and delivered the first smack. Self defense is a reaction to an act of aggression, and if Bachir sought direct help from the Israelis to survive the assault against his and his community's existence, however deceitful that help may have been, he is excused. Life is more sacred than hollow Bull, and whoever has the guts to stand and admit this has my respect, and whoever denies it, is a cheap hypocrite. Tell me, in order to survive an imminent danger, does it matter if the help comes from a brother or an enemy? And reciprocally, if one's "brother" hungers more for one's blood than a presumed foo, who is to be considered enemy and who is to be a "brother"?

As for the topic, Hariri's plans, it started coming to its end the moment Hizbollah and FPM teamed up in a tango.

[CedarLb]

Originally Posted by roch10452

1- the hand you cant break it, kiss it... WJ excells in this matter

2- same as above

3- didnt get your question about the crisis now, what is it related to KSA taking over lebanon

4- Hariri's economy, corruption of the lebanese(all of them), syria, HA for its continious state of war instead of peace building. what has the debt to do with KSA taking over lebanon? they having been paying most our war bills for a while now!

5- we dont want the naturalization of the palestinians, the debt is not helping in the naturalization, but the state of wars... the lebanese debt is towards the lebanese banks, which means the country is in debt to the lebanese people... i dont see why would the lebanese ofrce their goverment into the naturalization!!!

6- analyzing the problem doesnt mean supporting it
Hariri was predicting what light happen in the future, and planning to use it for lebanon's good (if we are forced to naturalize, at least we gain something from it)

7- of course, if the palestiniqns are living on lebanese resources, they are allready implemented economilicaly here, he is saying to stop this, lets work for a palestinian state, he is offering a solution against naturalization!!!

8- that is Abi Nasr opinion and story! i never heard of it

roch10452,

For the first two points, I share the same opinion as lebanese1. WJ, while cussing at Bashar (after the Syrian withdrawal and the ma7kama thing), hailed the syrian intervention to oust GMA in 1990, and nostalgically invoked memoris of Kanaan, and the old-guards era.

As for the economic crisis and the role of KSA in it, it's clear that this economic crisis and the high debt are rooted in the early 90s, when the so-called "syrian" ambassador back then who indefinitely shuttled back-and-forth between Beirut and Riyadh, the Saudi-Lebanese business man was charged of the economic and political situation.

In his statement in 2000, Hariri Sr. not only was analyzing, but he was explaining that the debt that grew under his supervision will be wept out by the naturalization. Hadn't he been the responsible for the pre-2000 period, I would have agreed with what you said. His prediction started when he took charge of the Lebanese file, since the 90s, or 80s, when he started getting remotely and financially involved in the civil war.

Regarding our will regarding the naturalization of the Palestinians, I guess it has been the same since... mmm... the fourties? the seventies? yet, what did happen? What will happen in case we all hunger and we were threatened with a war similar to the 2006 one, in order to accept it? I know that the defeatist mentality will gladly accept it.

In the example of WJ, he was saying that the naturalization is a de-facto unless there are some regional changes. The history of this man proves that he will go for it in exchange of some political power. You said it, he and many others will kiss the hand they can't break.

Originally Posted by sailormoon

And do you remember who said that "the only project that can work in Lebanon is the Islamic state project" ?
Do you remember who said that "Christians came in Lebanon as invaders brought by the Byzantines" and that "Jbeil Keserwan and shar2ieh are muslim areas"
Do you remember who said "Thank you Syria" (after that the later destroyed killed and robbed us for 30 years) .
Do you remember who said "that the Christians in Lebanon became a tiny and insignificant community and the best thing they can do is to shut up" ?

What I m getting at is that the Hariri has probably a plan for Lebanon , but what s sure is that Hezballah has also a plan for Lebanon and believe me it s not in the interest of te Christians and every Lebanese who believes in democracy and freedom.

Thank you, glad to read that you probably know that Hariri has a plan for Lebanon. As for the rest of your post, please take them out to another thread.