Hariri's plan for Lebanon: did its end begin?

[hhhh23]

Originally Posted by CedarLb

roch10452,


Let's come back to our current political crisis.

1. What does PSP, in Oct 2005 i.e. after the Cedar Revolution, thanking the Syrian army for smashing GMA and imposing Taef tell you?
   
   يتوجه الحزب التقدمي الاشتراكي بالتحية الى جنود وشهداء الجيش اللبناني والعربي السوري في الذكرى الخامسة عشرة على انهاء التمرد واستعادة وحدة الدولة ومؤسساتها التي اتاحها اتفاق الطائف وهو الوثيقة السياسية التي اجمع عليها اللبنانيون واكدت عروبة لبنان وانتجت السلم الاهلي.ـ
2. What does WJ crying over Ghazi Kanaan in his press conference above tell you?
3. Are you able to see that the crisis has nothing to do with sovereignty and seeing the light after 15 years of occupation?
4. Who's the main responsible of the debt that we're suffering from? (don't tell me HA caused the destruction of Lebanon in 2006 *yawn*)
5. Why were the GoC and the patriarch warning against the naturalization of the Palestinians in 2005?
6. What about Hariri Sr. saying in 2000 that "أنه لا يرى امكانية للهروب من التوطين، وأن مصلحة البلاد هي في مزيد من الاستدانة، لأن كافة الديون ستمحى عندما يفرض واقع التوطين الفلسطيني على لبنان"ـ
7. and Walid Junblat stressing on it on the eve of the 2005 elections: التوطين حاصل طالما لن تقوم دولة فلسطينية قابلة للحياة. التوطين حاصل منذ سنة 1949.?
8. Who was Neemtallah Abi Nasr referring to in his famous call in 2006:
   
   ولا نـزالُ نذكرُ قولا" مأثورا" لأحدِهم : « لا مشكلةَ لديّ مع المَوارنة . ثلثُهم اشتريُته .وثلثُهم يهاجر . والثلثُ الباقي احكمُه »
   إنَ ما يؤلمني اليومَ ويُخيفني في الصميمِ هو هذا المشهد المارونيّ الحاليّ :
   القيادات المارونية ، في معظمِها ، وبمباركةِ الكنيسةِ او بتجاهلِها على الأقل ، مصطفةٌ امام حاكمِ قريطم بإنتظارِ انْ يتكرّمَ ويختارَ رئيسا" جديدا" ليعزله في قصرِ بعبدا البروتوكولي .
9. etc.

Finally, I kindly ask you not to dodge from the questions by bringing up HA/Syria's controversial policies.

1- Why single out PSP thanking Syria in 2005? What does HA/Amal/PSP/Bahia Thanking Syria in 2005 tell you ? This just tells us that Jumblat, Nasrallah, Berri, Bahia were close allies fo Syria and are quite happy of Syria crushing GMA in 1989. However, you chose to single out the thanks from your opponents and forgotten the thanks from your allies.

2- That's once again the same thing. Jumblat cried over Kenaan, Nasrallah cried over Rustom, Hariri cried over both, why single out one person? What does all of these tears tell you? The same as 1- above.

3- This question is specific to the user you quoted.

4-Rafic el Hariri is the main responsible, along with all Syrian-backed politicians from 1990-2005.

5- Since the day a Palestinian stepped in Lebanon, all politicians, throughout history were warning of the naturalization. Now surely, all of the politicians were selective in the time they chose to do this warning. In other words, as long as the warning can help them gain some popularity they use it. Thus, it doesnt need to mean, ever since the Palestinians stepped in Lebanon, the problem of naturalization started and became a danger, and will continue to be so. This was before Hariri, with Hariri and after Hariri.

6- In 2000, and before that, there was an international agreement that the naturalization must take place. Hariri was the current tool to make it happen. However, unfortunately at that time, no one (except Aoun at that point) even dared to say anything against it, mainly because Syria supported it. Hence, that does not tell us of Hariri's intentions, but rather of the whole world's intentions, and the use of Hariri as a tool.

7- In 2005, mentioning the tawtin would have gotten you hundreds of votes, and Jumblat did it smartly. It tells you nothing except that Jumblat wanted some votes, mainly christians.

8- Abi Nasr was with FPM at the time, and hence he was with Michel Aoun for president. His words simply reflected the words of all opposition members at that time. This was the opposition's position on the presidency as opposed to the loyalist approach. Simply put, this was a normal political stance reflecting Abi NAsr's opinion, there is nothing mystical behind it.

[CedarLb]

Originally Posted by hhhh23

1- Why single out PSP thanking Syria in 2005? What does HA/Amal/PSP/Bahia Thanking Syria in 2005 tell you ? This just tells us that Jumblat, Nasrallah, Berri, Bahia were close allies fo Syria and are quite happy of Syria crushing GMA in 1989. However, you chose to single out the thanks from your opponents and forgotten the thanks from your allies.

2- That's once again the same thing. Jumblat cried over Kenaan, Nasrallah cried over Rustom, Hariri cried over both, why single out one person? What does all of these tears tell you? The same as 1- above.

I chose WJ because WJ and FM are now spearhead in the same political front, and have the same political plan, la aktar wala 2a2al.

Unlike many others, you can probably see that there's a crisis between pro-Bashar and pro-Khadam.

You can read FPM's opinion in the 2nd post of this thread.

Originally Posted by hhhh23

3- This question is specific to the user you quoted.

4-Rafic el Hariri is the main responsible, along with all Syrian-backed politicians from 1990-2005.

5- Since the day a Palestinian stepped in Lebanon, all politicians, throughout history were warning of the naturalization. Now surely, all of the politicians were selective in the time they chose to do this warning. In other words, as long as the warning can help them gain some popularity they use it. Thus, it doesnt need to mean, ever since the Palestinians stepped in Lebanon, the problem of naturalization started and became a danger, and will continue to be so. This was before Hariri, with Hariri and after Hariri.

6- In 2000, and before that, there was an international agreement that the naturalization must take place. Hariri was the current tool to make it happen. However, unfortunately at that time, no one (except Aoun at that point) even dared to say anything against it, mainly because Syria supported it. Hence, that does not tell us of Hariri's intentions, but rather of the whole world's intentions, and the use of Hariri as a tool.

Not quiet as simple as it seems.

There are thousands of martyrs who fell in the seventies in order to forbid this from happening.

In 1990, GMA faced the whole world, and he would have succeeded had other political factions or maybe Bkerki not collaborated with the whole world against the Lebanon's wellbeing.

How did Syria also support naturalization? Given that pro-Syrian Emile Lahoud, who was staunchly against Hariri, used to warn and oppose it day and night.

Originally Posted by hhhh23

7- In 2005, mentioning the tawtin would have gotten you hundreds of votes, and Jumblat did it smartly. It tells you nothing except that Jumblat wanted some votes, mainly christians.

I'm quiet confused. Are you saying that WJ smartly mentioned the issue to give GMA some Christians' votes?

Originally Posted by hhhh23

8- Abi Nasr was with FPM at the time, and hence he was with Michel Aoun for president. His words simply reflected the words of all opposition members at that time. This was the opposition's position on the presidency as opposed to the loyalist approach. Simply put, this was a normal political stance reflecting Abi NAsr's opinion, there is nothing mystical behind it.

So what about the content of his words? Is there anything wrong/inaccurate about them?

[hhhh23]

Originally Posted by CedarLb

I chose WJ because WJ and FM are now spearhead in the same political front, and have the same political plan, la aktar wala 2a2al.

Unlike many others, you can probably see that there's a crisis between pro-Bashar and pro-Khadam.

You can read FPM's opinion in the 2nd post of this thread.

Not quiet as simple as it seems.

There are thousands of martyrs who fell in the seventies and the eighties in order to forbid this from happening.

In 1990, GMA faced the whole world, and he would have succeeded had other political factions or maybe Bkerki not collaborated with the whole world against the Lebanon's wellbeing.

I'm quiet confused. Are you saying that WJ smartly mentioned the issue to give GMA some Christians' votes?
So what about his words? Is there anything wrong/inaccurate about them?

- There is a crisis between pro-Khaddam and pro-Bashar, unfortunately, both pro-people put Lebanon as their last priority.

- You said "there are thousands of martyrs...", that is exactly agreeing with me. In the 70s, naturalization was led by Arafat and his supporters, and defended by LF. Aoun defended the issue in 88-89 when he was prime minister and faced the whole world, but Bkerki and the 100 MPs made his plan fail so that the naturlization is pursued with the aid of Syria. Afterwards, the issue was still the same and the tool was no longer Arafat but Hariri under Syrian-KSA-USA agreement. I fail to see how what I said is making it "simple" and how it differs from what you said. It is really simple: the USA and all of its allies want the naturalization of the palestinians since the 70s, and whoever is there pawn in Lebanon would support it (Arafat and co 70s, Syria-KSA-Hariri from mid-80s till 2005, Some factions of 14 Feb now)

- I said Jumblat smartly mentioned that so that HE gains votes, HE= Jumblat, I dont know how you linked Aoun with that. Jumblat played on the naturalization issue to get some Christian votes in Baabda and so on.

- What Abi Nasr said was true and correct. But this has been true since Hrawi and Syria occupied Lebanon (and arguably even a bit before). I fail to see the "revelation" that his words are giving us.

[ecce homo]

Old Al-Hayat interview with Rafic Hariri:

Al-Hayat: You have a strong relationship with King Fahd bin Abdel-Aziz (of Saudi Arabia). With whom do you also have a strong relationship in the Arab world?
PM Hariri: With President Hafez al-Assad.

Al-Hayat: When did you meet him for the first time?
PM Hariri: At the end of 1982, or beginning of 1983, as I remember. I was with Prince Bandar bin Sultan and the objective was a cease-fire in Lebanon. The relationship continued. I don't think that anyone outside Syria had this many meetings with President al-Assad and spent this much time with him. The relationship has continued for 17 years and I've met him about 50 times.

Al-Hayat: What distinguishes President al-Assad?
PM Hariri:His strategic mind; at the same time, he's concerned with the details. Politicians usually have one of these two traits, but President al-Assad combines the two. He's strategic, and he's concerned with the smallest details. This is in addition to characteristics such as loyalty, and taking the long-term view of things. President al-Asad has given Syria status in the world. Observe now that all eyes are turning to Syria regarding peace; there can be no hope of peace without (Syria).

Al-Hayat: When did Damascus discuss the prime minister's post with you?
PM Hariri: In 1992.

Al-Hayat: Really?
PM Hariri: As I told you before, it wasn't discussed with me before that. Perhaps with others.

Al-Hayat: They say that President Elias Hrawi proposed your name right after he was elected.
PM Hariri: That's correct.

Al-Hayat: And he was told, "It's too early."
PM Hariri: Yes, too early.

Al-Hayat: Why did it become suitable in 1992 after being "too early" just shortly before that?
PM Hariri: I think that conditions changed, after the parliamentary elections in Lebanon. A new phase, a new policy course. A new speaker of Parliament.

Al-Hayat: Before being named, you met with President al-Assad. What did you reach an understanding about?
PM Hariri: About the alliance between Lebanon and Syria. I think that from our side, we implemented what was agreed, and they did too. President al-Assad supported the relationship between Syria and Lebanon and I did everything while prime minister to strengthen this relationship. I believe the relationship moved from one situation to another. No doubt President Elias Hrawi played a fundamental role, and Speaker (Nabih) Berry as well. In Lebanon, there isn't a single "top leader." Each person does what he can, from his position (in government).

Al-Hayat: During this session, did you try to receive a "wider" authorization to form a Cabinet?
PM Hariri: President al-Assad is a person who has a special attractiveness. I didn't discuss names of ministers with President al-Assad.

Al-Hayat: Did Saudi Arabia play a direct role in your becoming prime minister?
PM Hariri: No.

Al-Hayat: It's said that you asked King Fahd bin Abdel-Aziz and he hesitated in supporting you.
PM Hariri: I asked King Fahd, and he told me, "May God assist you; we are concerned with the interest of Lebanon." King Fahd feared for me, regarding security incidents.

...

Al-Hayat: When did your relationship with President Elias Hrawi begin?
PM Hariri: In 1982.

Al-Hayat: You met each other at an initiative by Johnny Abdo. You met at Hrawi's house, and the bed broke under you.
PM Hariri: That's correct.

Al-Hayat: You played a role in Hrawi's becoming president?
PM Hariri: Yes.

I Al-Hayat: It's said that you didn't support the presidency of Rene Mouawad.
PM Hariri: That's not true.

Al-Hayat: What do you remember regarding the presidency, post-Taif?
PM Hariri: Even before Taif, there was an understanding between Syria and Saudi Arabia over Rene Mouawad.

Al-Hayat: Who helped set up this understanding?
PM Hariri: Many people helped, and his personality was also a helping factor. He was known by all sides.

Al-Hayat: When did Syria support Mouawad?
PM Hariri: Before Taif. It wasn't final, but the talk was there. After Taif, the idea was translated into reality.

Al-Hayat: What's the story of your secret trip to Syria after Taif and your meeting with President al-Assad?
PM Hariri: MPs from Lebanon came to Paris. One day, it was said that Mouawad was absent. That day, he was in Syria. He went with my plane and met President al-Assad, then the election took place.

Al-Hayat: Your first candidate was Elias Hrawi?
PM Hariri: I knew him more, and knew that he was an aggressive person, in a good way, taking the initiative. I thought the time needed such characteristics, and later on I was proven right.

Al-Hayat: Did Mouawad discuss with you giving a certain post?
PM Hariri: No.

Al-Hayat: What happened after Mouawad's assassination?
PM Hariri: I visited his family in the house in Paris, and was asked what should be done. I said, elections. We telephoned MPs who were in Paris.

Al-Hayat: When Hrawi's name was proposed, what other names were proposed?
PM Hariri: There was George Saade, God rest his soul.

Al-Hayat: Was Jean Obeid mentioned? Did he meet with al-Assad?
PM Hariri: There was a meeting between him and Abdel-Halim Khaddam and Hikmat Shehabi. This happened after Mouawad's martyrdom.

Al-Hayat: They say that the presidency was offered to Pierre Helou.
PM Hariri: There was talk of this, but I'm not certain about it. It's said that Speaker Hussein Husseini relayed the offer, but that Helou answered that the issue of Michel Aoun would only be solved by force, and that he (Helou) wasn't ready for this.

Al-Hayat: And Jean Obeid?
PM Hariri: He said that President Franjieh's name was on the table, and that he couldn't come before Franjieh; this was a position of loyalty to Franjieh.

Al-Hayat: So you tipped the balance toward Hrawi with Syria?
PM Hariri: I was among those who worked with Syria, and Saudi Arabia as well.

Al-Hayat: What did the Americans want?
PM Hariri: The election of a president.

Al-Hayat: Did Hrawi meet al-Assad prior to the election, like Mouawad did?
PM Hariri: I think something like that happened.

From the First Day

Al-Hayat: After his election, did Hrawi tell you that he would propose you as prime minister?
PM Hariri: Yes, he had this in mind from the first day.

...

Al-Hayat: Is it true that before the formation of your first Cabinet, you thought about forming one like the one formed at the beginning of Lahoud's presidency?
PM Hariri: Yes. I wanted the government to be like this: I wanted a Cabinet with 30 ministers, and I still support this. Experience proved this point. Politics in Lebanon is a big deal, and you have to give some posts to politicians, while bringing in technocrats to work. A government of veteran politicians or one of passive technocrats won't help, and won't work.

Al-Hayat: In the first Cabinet, what did you propose?
PM Hariri: I wanted all governments that I formed to retain a general, nationalist line; however, this should be represented by people with a good reputation, with no black mark against them. We didn't succeed at this, for several reasons. This is something that I'm blamed for. What happened in Ireland? Attempts to let the fighters participate in power, then the logic of the State would prevail. Ending the war in Lebanon, or ending the militias, saw two attempts. There's the method that Michel Aoun used. He proposed ending the Lebanese Forces by force. He used artillery, and what was the result? The eastern areas were destroyed, so was the army, and the militia remained. Elias Hrawi proposed something different. He told the militias that the State was open for all. Turn over your weapons to the State, and participate. This began in 1990, and I don't want to take credit; it began before I became prime minister. Let me ask you, where are the militias today? They melted away. The experience of Michel Aoun was destructive, regardless of the objectives. Hrawi ended the civil war in another way. Now, the State is stronger.

Al-Hayat: Why did you support an extension of Hrawi's mandate (in 1995)?
PM Hariri: The regional situation required keeping things the way they were. There was consultation with all parties, inside and outside the country, and we arrived at an agreement. Hrawi's mandate was extended. This met with fierce opposition by various forces, and it continued until the end of his term.

Al-Hayat: After Hrawi's term was extended, was he a weak president?
PM Hariri: I think that all of us could have done better than we did during the extended mandate. Perhaps it would have been better for President Hrawi to leave after completing his 6 years. But this is what happened, and we can't go back in time.

Al-Hayat: Is it true you proposed an extension to prevent General Lahoud from becoming president?
PM Hariri: No, if extension hadn't happened, another person would have become president.

Al-Hayat: Did you propose names at the time?
PM Hariri: There were always names on the table, including Jean Obeid.

Al-Hayat: Why Jean Obeid?
PM Hariri: Because he's trusted.

...

Al-Hayat: You had meetings with Samir Geagea, the former leader of the banned Lebanese Forces, inside and outside Lebanon, didn't you?
PM Hariri: During the war and at its end, I met with everyone.

Al-Hayat: When did the relationship with Walid Jumblatt begin?
PM Hariri: At the end of 1982. Most of these relationships began after the (1982) Israeli invasion of Lebanon. In fact, the political ties with most groups began after 1982. Before that, I wasn't involved in the details of politics.

Al-Hayat: Your relationship with Walid Jumblatt is either hot or cold, isn't it?
PM Hariri: I've known Walid since 1982, and my relationship with him became firm after that date. It never became a cold relationship. The hot part might fade, but it never got to the point of cold.

Has the current opposition (movement) united you?
PM Hariri: No, it was before that. Before the presidential election he visited me in Faqra, to have dinner. We spoke, didn't agree, and he left without having dinner. He was strongly opposed to General Lahoud's becoming president. He stated his opinion frankly.

With Lahoud

I Al-Hayat: s Syrian intervention what made you support General Lahoud's becoming president?
PM Hariri: That's one element, in addition to the general climate. A smart marketing campaign was organized to guarantee General Lahoud's election, and it was clear that if he didn't become president, there would be frustration in the country. There was a wide-scale attack against the political class in Lebanon, which made it easy to attack this class, because of the wars between its various sides. So, Lahoud's presidency became a demand (by the public), which is what the campaign was aimed at.

Al-Hayat: With General Lahoud, what did you agree about before his election?
PM Hariri: Everything.

Al-Hayat: The formation of the first Cabinet?
PM Hariri: There was nothing we didn't discuss, and the understanding between us was a complete one.

...

Al-Hayat: When did you meet Abdel-Halim Khaddam?
PM Hariri: In 1982.

Al-Hayat: And your relationship became stronger after that time?
PM Hariri: Yes, I always coordinated with Syria, and he was the vice president, and responsible for Lebanon, with Hikmat Shehabi and Ghazi Kenaan.

Al-Hayat: Don't politicians in Lebanon complain about Khaddam's style?
PM Hariri: Abu Jamal (Khaddam) represented an important phase in Syria's history, and particularly in Lebanon.

Al-Hayat: Are you afraid of peace in the region?
PM Hariri: I'm not afraid, but we should be realistic. I think that peace for the region is necessary, and important, if it is comprehensive. However, I think that it won't solve all the region's problems. It will solve a type of problem, and create huge challenges. Giving the impression that peace will solve al of our problems isn't right. I don't feel that there are those in Lebanon trying to understand these challenges or study their repercussions on the country. There is talk by top officials in the country, saying that all of the problems will be solved by signing a peace deal. I think that this is a big mistake. There are many problems: the camps, Hizbullah, normalization, economic problems, and national and cultural challenges. Peace is no picnic, and simplifying the problems leads to avoiding a search for solutions.

Al-Hayat: Do you fear that peace will create terror?
PM Hariri: On both sides, there are those who oppose peace, among the Israelis, and the Arabs. And these groups will express themselves using various means. I hope that violence isn't one of them.

...

[TripolySunni]

The Plan was to kick Arafat out and Destroy the Lebanese Resistance, Israel started it's work in 82 after the Agreement between Khaddam, Habib and The Arabs (represented By Saudi's Man Hariri) and the Likes of Hariri were sent to make sure it happens and later Take the Position of PM. Arafat did not want the Naturalization of Palestinians in Lebanon He just wanted a Base of Operations after Syria and Jordan Abandoned him.

Hariri Died Because his Masters were Thugs.

[Anny]

[quote=TripolySunni;908614]The Plan was to kick Arafat out and Destroy the Lebanese Resistance, Israel started it's work in 82 after the Agreement between Khaddam, Habib and The Arabs (represented By Saudi's Man Hariri) and the Likes of Hariri were sent to make sure it happens and later Take the Position of PM. Arafat did not want the Naturalization of Palestinians in Lebanon He just wanted a Base of Operations after Syria and Jordan Abandoned him.

Hariri Died Because his Masters were Thugs.[/QUOTE]

Not only his masters were thugs but he was a thug too. And seriously, I am very happy that he died. One day or another, his empire of Saudi in Lebanon has to end.

[roch10452]

Originally Posted by CedarLb

roch10452,

1. What does PSP, in Oct 2005 i.e. after the Cedar Revolution, thanking the Syrian army for smashing GMA and imposing Taef tell you?
   
   يتوجه الحزب التقدمي الاشتراكي بالتحية الى جنود وشهداء الجيش اللبناني والعربي السوري في الذكرى الخامسة عشرة على انهاء التمرد واستعادة وحدة الدولة ومؤسساتها التي اتاحها اتفاق الطائف وهو الوثيقة السياسية التي اجمع عليها اللبنانيون واكدت عروبة لبنان وانتجت السلم الاهلي.ـ
2. What does WJ crying over Ghazi Kanaan in his press conference above tell you?
3. the crisis has nothing to do with sovereignty and seeing the light after 15 years of occupation?
4. Who's the main responsible of the debt that we're suffering from? (don't tell me HA caused the destruction of Lebanon in 2006 *yawn*)
5. Why were the GoC and the patriarch warning against the naturalization of the Palestinians in 2005?
6. What about Hariri Sr. saying in 2000 that "أنه لا يرى امكانية للهروب من التوطين، وأن مصلحة البلاد هي في مزيد من الاستدانة، لأن كافة الديون ستمحى عندما يفرض واقع التوطين الفلسطيني على لبنان"ـ
7. and Walid Junblat stressing on it on the eve of the 2005 elections: التوطين حاصل طالما لن تقوم دولة فلسطينية قابلة للحياة. التوطين حاصل منذ سنة 1949.?
8. Who was Neemtallah Abi Nasr referring to in his famous call in 2006:
   
   ولا نـزالُ نذكرُ قولا" مأثورا" لأحدِهم : « لا مشكلةَ لديّ مع المَوارنة . ثلثُهم اشتريُته .وثلثُهم يهاجر . والثلثُ الباقي احكمُه »
   إنَ ما يؤلمني اليومَ ويُخيفني في الصميمِ هو هذا المشهد المارونيّ الحاليّ :
   القيادات المارونية ، في معظمِها ، وبمباركةِ الكنيسةِ او بتجاهلِها على الأقل ، مصطفةٌ امام حاكمِ قريطم بإنتظارِ انْ يتكرّمَ ويختارَ رئيسا" جديدا" ليعزله في قصرِ بعبدا البروتوكولي .
9. etc.

Finally, I kindly ask you not to dodge from the questions by bringing up HA/Syria's controversial policies.

1- the hand you cant break it, kiss it... WJ excells in this matter

2- same as above

3- didnt get your question about the crisis now, what is it related to KSA taking over lebanon

4- Hariri's economy, corruption of the lebanese(all of them), syria, HA for its continious state of war instead of peace building. what has the debt to do with KSA taking over lebanon? they having been paying most our war bills for a while now!

5- we dont want the naturalization of the palestinians, the debt is not helping in the naturalization, but the state of wars... the lebanese debt is towards the lebanese banks, which means the country is in debt to the lebanese people... i dont see why would the lebanese ofrce their goverment into the naturalization!!!

6- analyzing the problem doesnt mean supporting it
Hariri was predicting what light happen in the future, and planning to use it for lebanon's good (if we are forced to naturalize, at least we gain something from it)

7- of course, if the palestiniqns are living on lebanese resources, they are allready implemented economilicaly here, he is saying to stop this, lets work for a palestinian state, he is offering a solution against naturalization!!!

8- that is Abi Nasr opinion and story! i never heard of it

[lebanese1]

Originally Posted by roch10452

1- the hand you cant break it, kiss it... WJ excells in this matter

This statement doesn't apply here. PSP thanked the Syrian army for crushing the Lebanese one in October 2005 (6 months after "sawrat al arz"), while you know so well how WJ is dealing with Syria since February 2005 and that e hasn't missed a chance to attack them very fiercly except in the statement CedarLB showed you. So why this exception?

[sailormoon]

Originally Posted by CedarLb

1. Do you remember who said that "Lebanon is a historical mistake that should be eliminated"?
   
2. Do you remember who wanted to ship the Christians from Lebanon to setlle them in "L'île du prince Edouard"?
   
3. Do you remember who wanted to liberate Jerusalem from Jounieh? and who were his allies? and who funded these allies?

What about your perception of the Saudi/Hariri plan for Lebanon?

And do you remember who said that "the only project that can work in Lebanon is the Islamic state project" ?
Do you remember who said that "Christians came in Lebanon as invaders brought by the Byzantines" and that "Jbeil Keserwan and shar2ieh are muslim areas"
Do you remember who said "Thank you Syria" (after that the later destroyed killed and robbed us for 30 years) .
Do you remember who said "that the Christians in Lebanon became a tiny and insignificant community and the best thing they can do is to shut up" ?

What I m getting at is that the Hariri has probably a plan for Lebanon , but what s sure is that Hezballah has also a plan for Lebanon and believe me it s not in the interest of te Christians and every Lebanese who believes in democracy and freedom.

[hhhh23]

Originally Posted by CedarLb

How did Syria also support naturalization? Given that pro-Syrian Emile Lahoud, who was staunchly against Hariri, used to warn and oppose it day and night.
?

For this point, yeah, that is so true, when Bachar came, he was against Hariri, and his men were against Hariri, and Syria was already on opposite directions with the United States. Hence, at that point, they opposed naturalization.

But that, doesnt delete pre-1998, when Hariri was the main pro-Syrian player and was staunchly with naturalization day and night. Hence, Syria was too, obviously.