Hariri & Tawteen: What Is the Source of this Political Issue?

[AliArz]

The late PM Rafiq Hariri has been largely accused of facilitating the naturalization of the Palestinians in Lebanon.

Some are even saying that the debt the country is left with is due to his implementation of 'tawteen'.

Just how true is all this story? What are the sources?

If it is true, then this is a huge setback for the Shahid, because he is by far the biggest Lebanese personality in history.

Wether we like him or not, the world respects him and he is the one that put Lebanon back on the map.

Very similar to late President Camille Chamoun, he gave out a lot for the Lebanese nation.

He was not against the Christians and neither was he with them, he was simply a businessman who worked for the interests of the Lebanon. Many Christians liked him, but the majority of Lebanon now dislike the current March 14 forces that is led by Jumblatt, Geagea and Gemayel.

What caused many Christians, Sunnis, Shias & Druze in Lebanon to dislike him now?

All are putting the finger on 'tawteen'.

It is this story that will put the late Hariri at a very bottom level.

But where are the facts? Was he really with 'tateen'?

If that is true, then why was he assassinated in 2005?

The Americans and the French could have easily kept him alive and have him implement tawteen. Why didn't they keep him safe? After all, no one could have done a better job at this then Hariri.

Could it be that he was against the idea? If so, where are the proofs?

Why are we all accusing Hariri of facilitating tawteen when we don't seem to carry out sufficient proofs?

Your help would truly be apreciated.

Ali Arz

[lebanese_rebel]

George Bush said that a percentage of the debt shall be settled if the Palestinians are naturalized...Soon enough that percentage will become the whole debt and that offer will be too good to refuse for a starving people

Settling the Palestinians in Lebanon, i.e. +500,000 sunnis(minimum), will push the christians more and more towards a federal system since our status of minority will be a reason to be put even more aside from the ruling class.And the Druze will follow...Sunnis wont mind.

A federal Christian entity, that is likely to sign a peace treaty with Israel is nothing bt what both Israel and the USA want.And after the dismantlement of the Lebanese nation, the Resistance of the Arabs,mainly Hizbollah, will be an easier target...And the absence of any resistance will pave the way for the New middle-East that the USA want.

Why was Hariri assassinated???Another question we wont knw the answer before another 10 years probably.
My theory is that the USA needed a catalyst for:
1- Syrian withdrawal
2- Strengthening the radical sunnis which the Syrians didnt want
3- Open the road for an Israeli war on Lebanon that Hariri wouldnt have agreed on since it would hurt him as a businessman(not as a patriot)


On a side note, The main reason that people dont like him is not for this issue.
Being a first class robber and a thief, ,most of what he built,mainly the Downtown District that his followers praise(although its the minimum he was to be done)he built with the money of the people and all the profits went to companies,that were his or of his choice....Notably Solidere

[Bejin]

إلغاء 30% من ديون لبنان لقاء قبوله بمشروع للتوطين

2 شباط 2008
خليل فليحان - يسعى الرئيس الاميركي جورج بوش الى امرار مشروع "اعلان دولة فلسطينية بحدود موقتة والاتفاق على المبادىء وتطبيق الحل النهائي خلال الصيف المقبل" ويركز الطاقم الذي يدرس هذا المشروع ضرورة او عدم ضرورة، التوصل الى اتفاق على حق العودة والحق النهائي قبل انتهاء الولاية الحالية لبوش او التمهيد لمشروع حل واذا تم التوصل الى مثل هذا الاتفاق فهل يوقع في تشرين الثاني او ان تنفيذه وسبل ترجمته العملية ستؤجل الى ما بعد انتخاب رئيس اميركي جديد؟

وافادت مصادر قيادية انها تبلغت معلومات ديبلوماسية عن "طبخة اميركية لهذا المشروع يتولاها نخبة من الخبراء والمستشارين بعيدا من الاضواء بطلب من البيت الابيض. واوضحت ان مقومات المشروع هي اعتراف الفلسطينيين بيهودية الدولة في مقابل اعتذار اسرائيل عن عدم السماح لعدد كبير من الفلسطينيين بالعودة الى اراضيهم المحتلة، وهذا هو المقصود بـ"يهودية الدولة" مما يعني استحالة رجوع الفلسطيني الى ارضه، واذا حصل ذلك كله فسيعني ان السكان سيكونون من اليهود فقط دون الفلسطينيين، ويتضمن المشروع التعويض المالي للمبعدين منهم.

واشارت المعلومات الى ان المناقشات تتناول في الوقت الحاضر موضوع "تصنيف التعويضات" وما اذا كانت ستكون للدول التي تستضيف اللاجئين الفلسطينيين مثل لبنان وسوريا والاردن التي حضنتهم منذ اواخر الاربعينات ام للافراد الذين تستضيفهم تلك الدول ام للفئتين معا، ام للدولة الفلسطينية التي ستنشأ؟
وكشفت المعلومات ان المخططين لهذا المشروع يبحثون في اقتراح سيطرح على لبنان لإيفاء 30 في المئة من ديونه في مقابل تعهده عقد اتفاق مع اللاجئين الذين يستضيفهم.
واشارت الى اتصالات تجري هي بمثابة "جس النبض لدول عربية غنية من اجل تقديم المبالغ المطلوبة، واخرى صاحبة نفوذ لدعم هذا المشروع ليصبح نافذا".

وذكرت ان الطاقم المكلف هذه المهمة يقترح لإنضاج" الطبخة "تثبيت الوضع في العراق ولبنان والاراضي الفلسطينية باتباع سياسة "خفض الاضرار" قدر المستطاع بابقاء الاوضاع في تلك الدول كما هي عليه الى اوائل الصيف المقبل من خلال اضعاف التنظيمات المسلحة فيها وافقادها صدقيّتها. ولفتت الى ان المشروع المطروح في مسودته التي هي قيد الاعداد لم يشر الى كلمة "توطين" في اي من ثناياه.

وافادت ان وزيرة الخارجية الاميركية كوندوليزا رايس ترى ان الديبلوماسي الاكفأ لانضاج هذا المشروع هو السفير السابق وليم بيرنز الذي تقاعد وطلبت اعادته الى وزارة الخارجية بسبب خبرته الواسعة في هذا الملف، وستكون العودة بموجب عقد كنائب مساعد للشؤون السياسية ليحل محل نيكولاس بيرنز.
وفي المعلومات ايضا ان البيت الابيض مستاء من الخطط الفاشلة التي وضعها المسؤول عن الشرق الاوسط في مجلس الامن القومي اليوت ابرامز على الاخص بالنسبة الى لبنان. واكدت هذه المعلومات ان ابرامز باق في مركزه من دون صلاحيات ونفوذ.

ولم تشأ المصادر ربط زعزعة الاستقرار في لبنان بالسعي الى امرار ذلك المشروع لانها على حد تعبيرها "اولا لا تملك اي قرائن موثقة تثبت ذلك. وثانيا لتداخل الملفات الامنية، من ارتكاب جريمة اغتيال الرئيس رفيق الحريري والجرائم الاخرى، الى تصفية حسابات لمنظمات اصولية لا يمكن حصرها بسبب الانكشاف الذي تجتازه البلاد بفعل فقدان المناعة السياسية وكره القيادات السياسية والفاعليات الحزبية وبعضها لبعض وحاجتها الى وسطاء لنقل المواقف حاليا مثل الامين العام لجامعة الدول العربية عمرو موسى الذي تعرض لحملات مركزة، بعدما كان سبقه وزير الخارجية الفرنسي برنار كوشنير الذي اوقف الوساطة التي كان مكلفا القيام بها".

[Bejin]

document 7262 Jihaz el Amn 17 december 2000

[supersonichadi]

Originally Posted by AliArz

The late PM Rafiq Hariri has been largely accused of facilitating the naturalization of the Palestinians in Lebanon.

Some are even saying that the debt the country is left with is due to his implementation of 'tawteen'.

Just how true is all this story? What are the sources?

If it is true, then this is a huge setback for the Shahid, because he is by far the biggest Lebanese personality in history.

Wether we like him or not, the world respects him and he is the one that put Lebanon back on the map.

Very similar to late President Camille Chamoun, he gave out a lot for the Lebanese nation.

He was not against the Christians and neither was he with them, he was simply a businessman who worked for the interests of the Lebanon. Many Christians liked him, but the majority of Lebanon now dislike the current March 14 forces that is led by Jumblatt, Geagea and Gemayel.

What caused many Christians, Sunnis, Shias & Druze in Lebanon to dislike him now?

All are putting the finger on 'tawteen'.

It is this story that will put the late Hariri at a very bottom level.

But where are the facts? Was he really with 'tateen'?

If that is true, then why was he assassinated in 2005?

The Americans and the French could have easily kept him alive and have him implement tawteen. Why didn't they keep him safe? After all, no one could have done a better job at this then Hariri.

Could it be that he was against the idea? If so, where are the proofs?

Why are we all accusing Hariri of facilitating tawteen when we don't seem to carry out sufficient proofs?

Your help would truly be apreciated.

Ali Arz

There is no clear documentary saying that Harriri was planning to achieve the settlement of the Palistinians in Lebanon, but the political pattern in which he was going in, and now his son, shows that they have no problem in it at all. Moreover, couple of months ago, Mufti Mount Lebanon Ali Jozo said why the Palestinians can't be treated as the aremenians for example, they have the Lebanese identity and MP's in the parliment

[Venom]

Originally Posted by supersonichadi

There is no clear documentary saying that Harriri was planning to achieve the settlement of the Palistinians in Lebanon, but the political pattern in which he was going in, and now his son, shows that they have no problem in it at all. Moreover, couple of months ago, Mufti Mount Lebanon Ali Jozo said why the Palestinians can't be treated as the aremenians for example, they have the Lebanese identity and MP's in the parliment

[supersonichadi]

Originally Posted by Venom

This I think that GMA showed it in one of his interviews, and it is from the general security. I am not saying don't want it, but all what I was aiming on is the lack of the documentary about this issue, and this paper is one of the few documenatry about Harriri plans for the Palestinians

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by Bejin

document 7262 Jihaz el Amn 17 december 2000

someone read my post? i put the source and the document in large...

[Jorje]

George Bush said that a percentage of the debt shall be settled if the Palestinians are naturalized...Soon enough that percentage will become the whole debt and that offer will be too good to refuse for a starving people

hmm, where did he mention that?

He mentioned something about reparations, but nothing specific about Lebanon or what did he mean by that.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Bejin

someone read my post? i put the source and the document in large...

I don't see any document!!!