FPM-rapprochements

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Picasso

Pretty much a fascist perspective, while you're accusing them of being so!! Only a fascist sees that there is no third option, the main two Christian parties need to reconcile to recover from the past enmities, as HA and Amal did, while you're pouring gas on fire, do you want to see them fighting each other?!

A fascist mentality dismisses any legitimacy of the opponents even if they have a popular base and representation, a fascist mentality sees the opponent as a virus, and what do we do with a virus?! We kill it, do you want them to kill each other?!

People like you should be jailed for instigating violence and murdering motives between the Lebanese!

Dude,

When you have Parties whose sole ideology is based on hate, sectarianism, segregation, race superiority and social inequality...It's called fascism.

And fascism is a cancer in a society. The only peaceful way to get rid of it, is to stay away from it and marginalize it.

Otherwise, you'd be giving it legitimacy and strength, thus the power to inflict harm to society.

Now be smart for once in your life, and keep your advices to yourself and next time zip it.

[Armenian]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Dude,

And fascism is a cancer in a society. The only peaceful way to get rid of it, is to stay away of it and marginalize it.

With all due respect Abou Sandal,

Marginalizing is the core of the Lebanese problem and the core reason of any civil war.

Marginalization is the reason for a group to be armed and marginalization will create hate between partisans of the same country...

The problem is that we revolt against marginalization whenever it happens to us but marginalize others...

Thank you!!

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Armenian

With all due respect Abou Sandal,

Marginalizing is the core of the Lebanese problem and the core reason of any civil war.

Marginalization is the reason for a group to be armed and marginalization will create hate between partisans of the same country...

The problem is that we revolt against marginalization whenever it happens to us but marginalize others...

Thank you!!

Armenian,

When i use the word "marginalizing", i use it in the real sense of it, not the Lebanese sense of it, that is rather used to depict segregation.

Each healthy society has the duty to set a standard for its values, and marginalize fascist and racist doctrines and values.

In France for example, the main democratic Parties would never allow themselves to befriend the well known fascist and neo-nazi Parties.

In the US...and in all modern democracies...same thing.

It's not about people or more precisely about individuals...It's about ideologies.

Fascist, racist, Nazi... ideologies should be fought and marginalized, in order not to let them proliferate.

If a society don't do that, it means that it is not built on good and strong foundations, and that it does still not have a good set of standard and values.

Based on the above,It's not up to me to befriend the fascist...It's up to the fascist to renounce fascism or stay in his corner...Because as long as he is fascist...it means that he seeks my termination, and the destruction of the society i belong to.

[Joumana Gebara]

when oppressed become oppressors....

A phenomena of the faces of violence from a party claiming to be a national party uniting all Lebanese.

humanity, it did not begin yet

national unity, not from oppressed who become oppressors and aggressors of human and national liberty

[Picasso]

When you call your political opponents viruses then you're spreading hatred and enmity. If you have issues with them, that can be dealt with through dialogue not by hatred and fascist way by calling the other a cancer!

They don't need a legitimacy from you, through democracy they can be elected then they have the right to play a national role just like other parties!

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Dude,

When you have Parties whose sole ideology is based on hate, sectarianism, segregation, race superiority and social inequality...It's called fascism.

And fascism is a cancer in a society. The only peaceful way to get rid of it, is to stay away from it and marginalize it.

Otherwise, you'd be giving it legitimacy and strength, thus the power to inflict harm to society.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

when oppressed become oppressors....

With all due respect Joumana, but no one is asking to oppress anyone.

Marginalizing the fascist ideology does not turn the fascists into victims, nor does it turn their victims into oppressors.

If the Lebanese don't learn the difference between marginalizing dangerous ideologies, and segregating between citizens...Then the road to peace is long....and filled with wars and deceptions.

[Armenian]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Armenian,

When i use the word "marginalizing", i use it in the real sense of it, not the Lebanese sense of it, that is rather used to depict segregation.

Each healthy society has the duty to set a standard for its values, and marginalize fascist and racist doctrines and values.

In France for example, the main democratic Parties would never allow themselves to befriend the well known fascist and neo-nazi Parties.

In the US...and in all modern democracies...same thing.

It's not about people or more precisely about individuals...It's about ideologies.

Fascist, racist, Nazi... ideologies should be fought and marginalized, in order not to let them proliferate.

If a society don't do that, it means that it is not built on good and strong foundations, and that it does still not have a good set of standard and values.

Based on the above,It's not up to me to befriend the fascist...It's up to the fascist to renounce fascism or stay in his corner...Because as long as he is fascist...it means that he seeks my termination, and the destruction of the society i belong to.

LF can never be compared to the fascists and neo Nazis that you're talking about...

If we want to judge every person or party on previous actions or previous ideologies then let's do it for all of them, without any exception.

Let's remember HA's old ideologies and Kataeb's old ideologies, etc etc...

But we all agreed that we will close the lebanese war file and start a new political life.

LF, despite the fact that you don't agree with them politically, proved lately that they have distant themselves from Nazi ideologies, at least in public.

LF have supporters ( doesn't matter the quantity) and seeing them as enemies will just make the whole situation worst.

Armenians in Lebanon made a mistake and went to a war between each other in 1958, but learned from it, and from 1958 till 2009 the 3 political parties meet each other once every 2 weeks despite the fact that they don't agree politically.

In Canada, Bloque Quebecois is seen by many Canadians to be the most dangerous movement ever, but they represent a portion of this country, so they meet with them and talk to them and try to understand what they want.

Take it in any way you want, im still convinced that marginalization is the worst enemy Lebanon has ever seen.

Thank you!!

[Joumana Gebara]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

With all due respect Joumana, but no one is asking to oppress anyone.

Marginalizing the fascist ideology does not turn the fascists into victims, nor does it turn their victims into oppressors.

If the Lebanese don't learn the difference between marginalizing dangerous ideologies, and segregating citizens...Then the road to peace is long....and filled with wars and deceptions.

Since years I am following the beautiful picture of this nice child on your avatar... it was born, parents were more than proud... then she began speaking, loving, growing, her parents became prouder and prouder....
our country deserves a new birth, an open hand extended to everyone, we need to be proud one day of our achievments....
I understand you, abou Sandal... but there are worse ideologies all over Lebanon, unless you insist not be fair, which I doubt...
you are fair!

I wish an auto-critic toward Hizbullah's side from you Abou Sandal...
Let us be all fair to each others... Let us criticize Baathism, SSNP ideology, actually all ideologies and come out with the best result...

God bless your child, a beauty and innocence which goes through the heart

When I criticize ideologies, I take into consideration importance of children's lives... human rights... I do not want to change the subject about LF but would love to discuss with you the suffering of Shia/Sunni/Christian/Druz/etc.. children in another opportunity

[Picasso]

When they come into power through democratic election then they don't need you to need you to rule, the LF and Kataeb will take ministries whether you like it or not, and they decide many policies that affect many sides of your life. So, dealing with them and dialogue will be better than this enmity you want with them!

You don't like them you call them fascists, what kind of way to build a country is this?!

And how can we reach peace with the different factions of society of we see each other as cancers and viruses and we tend to marginalize each other?!

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

With all due respect Joumana, but no one is asking to oppress anyone.

Marginalizing the fascist ideology does not turn the fascists into victims, nor does it turn their victims into oppressors.

If the Lebanese don't learn the difference between marginalizing dangerous ideologies, and segregating between citizens...Then the road to peace is long....and filled with wars and deceptions.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

Since years I am following the beautiful picture of this nice child on your avatar... it was born, parents were more than proud... then she began speaking, loving, growing, her parents became prouder and prouder....
our country deserves a new birth, an open hand extended to everyone, we need to be proud one day of our achievments....
I understand you, abou Sandal... but there are worse ideologies all over Lebanon, unless you insist not be fair, which I doubt...
you are fair!

I wish an auto-critic toward Hizbullah's side from you Abou Sandal...
Let us be all fair to each others... Let us criticize Baathism, SSNP ideology, actually all ideologies and come out with the best result...

God bless your child, a beauty and innocence which goes through the heart

When I criticize ideologies, I take into consideration importance of children's lives... human rights... I do not want to change the subject about LF but would love to discuss with you the suffering of Shia/Sunni/Christian/Druz/etc.. children in another opportunity

Thanks Joumana,

I appreciate your post and agree with much of what you're saying. I just need to emphasize on the fact that i'm not saying that we should marginalize people...but only extremist ideologies.

Thus the policy of rapprochement between moderates and extremists, should only be on the basis of appeasement of tensions, and not in a way that leads to the legitimization of their doctrines.

Again, it has nothing to do with civic rights and equality among citizens,,,it's about confining extremist ideologies within a safe perimeter...So let us just leave the citizen out of this discussion please...i'm talking about pure politics and basic principles.