FPM in the long run

[GMA forever]

Originally Posted by dodzi

True FPMers will remain FPMers because all other parties suck! I never heard Gemayel or Geagea or any other give any good idea. They're not even that charismatic! And other small parties (like the democratic left for instance) have good potential, have good ideas and talented people, yet they don't succeed... Lebanese people are sheep: they'll follow the herd even if the shepherd is replaced!

True FPMers will remain FPMers because they believe in this party, and not because all other parties suck. The fact that all other parties suck may help us in recruitments, but never in allegiance.

Is it the same democratic left, the one from Elias Atallah??

Don't agree on the sheep as well.

[SISCO]

Originally Posted by dodzi

Why do we still not have our membership cards?

I find the internal election was postponed because they don't know the result and are afraid of the win of those are not totally and blindly agreeing with GMA.

I, as an independent and a supporter of FPM (until now), feel disappointed. i wanted to see a party for the future but unfortunatly it's not the case. however, fpm "achtaf zoum" la hallak.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by taifoon

A good and fit leader may be mandatory to have at some specific point in history in order to set a certain path and direction. Later on, a good and fit organization however will make sure the path is maintained and new leaders will in turn get easily enrolled into its structures accordingly. Working for a political cause or a goal is better guarded through continuation, and good leaders may come and go while well built organizations persist and are self supported.

Exactly this is the goal on the long run to strengthen FPM. For that we shall start with leadership development as soon as possible.

If GMA is already working on it, its not visible yet at all.

Originally Posted by sarhay

FPM party should have hieararchial structure to maintian its stability and continuity.

For now it is ok, but not on the long run. Or do you agree with Robert Michels?

the strong personality and charisma of GMA should not prevent any FPMer from voicing his/her concerns or views on various political and party related issues, Unless, GMA treats FPM party as single man show, i doubt it.

I meant rather that the people await all initiative from GMA, instead of initiating themselves.

Originally Posted by SISCO

I, as an independent and a supporter of FPM (until now), feel disappointed. i wanted to see a party for the future but unfortunatly it's not the case. however, fpm "achtaf zoum" la hallak.

Well if GMA will work on it, am sure FPM will be very strong on the long run. He has an excellent base to build on.

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by Salome

It is a recurring concern, what happens with FPM on the long run?

It will be mainly determined by the leadership style of GMA and whether he is able to cultivate new leaders within the party.

This raises the concern right away, how horizontal or hieararchic the relation is within the party leadership?
In addition, is GMA so strong and charismatic that it actually disempowers his supporters?
If there is a danger that the people will shy away from any initiative of their own, if they would think they can not achieve any improvements without the great oratory and guidance of GMA, then there is a serious problem to tackle with.

First, there is a need for a network of great leaders, best cultivated by GMA himself. By this the hierarchy could be downsized and new leaders could emerge, growing into responsible jobs.

Second, by strengthening horizontality, FPM would ensure that it can survive on the long run. This would allow connecting better to the people, inspiring them, encouraging them to dare to initiate the improvement of their lives and to achieve their goals.

GMA could make a real difference by creating opportunities thus helping young talents to emerge as leaders themselves.

Why worry? GMA still has many good years ahead of him and his son in law Bassil is still a young pup. Between the two of them you got the next 70 years of FPM top leadership covered. For the rest of the posts there doesn't seem to be a shortage of other extended family members to rely on.

We have the Gmayyel "family", the Frangieh "family, the Chamoun "family", the Murr "family", the Skaff "family", the Arslan "family", the Jumblat "family", the Karami "family", the Hoss "family" etc... and more recently added the Berri "family" and the Hariri "family" and so on... Why not add the Aoun/Bassil "family" and have ourselves a grand Feudal party. The blind people of Lebanon do not deserve anything better. They deserve exactly what they are getting.

Let me conclude by cheering: KBIR ya "za3eem" KBIR, no matter what in heck you do.

[sarhay]

For now it is ok, but not on the long run. Or do you agree with Robert Michels?

Salome, most democratic parties tend to have hierarchal structures that help them survive for long time, i.e. Germany (Christian democrats); France(socialist party), USA ( democratic and republican parties). The hierarchal character of a party should always evolve itself and correct its shortcomings in order to keep its party abreast of its populists demands. Crucial decisions at various turning points for political parties tends to materialize swiftly with the presence of hierarchal leadership, granted that the base is informed about these decisions with major agreement on them. FPM, is still in its infancy, as a political party and lot of information dissemination to the base and political education of the leaderships are needed and will take time to reach. That is why hierarchal structure will keep the backbone of the party vivid and will ensure leadership developments within the principle foundation f the party.
Salome, do you mean by Robert Michels, the German sociologist? If so, no I do not agree with his approach and do not GMA as going the path of individualism dictatorship.

I meant rather that the people await all initiative from GMA, instead of initiating themselves.

Got you! FPMers should take the initiative at all issues related to the party and should voice their concerns with democratic means. final decisions should be bestowed on representatives of the party members. let us hope that FPm will show some movement in that direction!

[sarhay]

Why worry? GMA still has many good years ahead of him and his son in law Bassil is still a young pup. Between the two of them you got the next 70 years of FPM top leadership covered. For the rest of the posts there doesn't seem to be a shortage of other extended family members to rely on.

Joseph, do you objectively see FPM going the path of democratic kingdomship? are you projecting that Gibran Bassil will be the successor of GMA in the long run? and could you please explain how that is demoted to the feudal system? How can onre the history and accomplishment of each individuals just because they have feudal last name? on what basis can you collectively equate GMA with the feudal families of Lebanon?

We have the Gmayyel "family", the Frangieh "family, the Chamoun "family", the Murr "family", the Skaff "family", the Arslan "family", the Jumblat "family", the Karami "family", the Hoss "family" etc... and more recently added the Berri "family" and the Hariri "family" and so on... Why not add the Aoun/Bassil "family" and have ourselves a grand Feudal party. The blind people of Lebanon do not deserve anything better. They deserve exactly what they are getting.

on what criteria can someone get membership in this club, just curious?since you seems furstrated with these feudal families political dominance in lebanon my question to you: do you agree that people of Lebanon, across the board, should only vote for non-feudal and warlords candidates in the coming elections?

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by sarhay

Joseph, do you objectively see FPM going the path of democratic kingdomship? are you projecting that Gibran Bassil will be the successor of GMA in the long run? and could you please explain how that is demoted to the feudal system? How can onre the history and accomplishment of each individuals just because they have feudal last name? on what basis can you collectively equate GMA with the feudal families of Lebanon?


on what criteria can someone get membership in this club, just curious?since you seems furstrated with these feudal families political dominance in lebanon my question to you: do you agree that people of Lebanon, across the board, should only vote for non-feudal and warlords candidates in the coming elections?

Yes I clearly see FPM as a neo-feudal party revolving primarily around GMA and his immediate and extended family. I do not see any elections yet why? There is absolutely no excuse for that. The party has aqnd continues to revolve on GMA's person and by extension his family. When the elections process was defined the VP position was not allowed to be voted on. It was linked with the presidential "ticket" to allow GMA to carry Bassil along with him without an explicit vote on VP. The Son in law was blatantly and arbitrarily handed the most important FPM ministerial position, and nepotism is is the ugly sister of feudalism.

Yes I think we shouldn't vote for any Feudal or warlords or militia leaders in the upcoming elections. We should also shun any wannabe neo-feudals as well. This means no Amal, no LF, no FPM, no HA, no Hariri, no Jumblat, no Skaff, No Arslan, No Murr, No gmayel, No No No.............

[shadow1]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Yes I think we shouldn't vote for any Feudal or warlords or militia leaders in the upcoming elections. We should also shun any wannabe neo-feudals as well. This means no Amal, no LF, no FPM, no HA, no Hariri, no Jumblat, no Skaff, No Arslan, No Murr, No gmayel, No No No.............

You clearly have no appreciation for brand names. What would our life be without Armani, Polo and Calvin Klein underwear?
Egalitarianism is only good as a human right principle and once taken away as a discussion topic from the chattering classes, it becomes as dull as confessing eating meat on Fridays.

Imagine for one second if those above mentioned names were taken out of circulation and suddenly we have to vote people in or out on issues. The logical step to follow would be to care for our own well being. Isnt that the ultimate selfishness?

From personal experience a funeral is much greater if attended by any of those clan chiefs, their siblings or offsprings. They add so much lustre to one's ascension into heaven as opposed to those attended by mortal peasants.

[sarhay]

[quote]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Yes I clearly see FPM as a neo-feudal party revolving primarily around GMA and his immediate and extended family.

Can you please clear my vision on your view above. FPM has many prominent figures in the forefront not of the extented family of GMA.

I do not see any elections yet why? There is absolutely no excuse for that.

Their stated excuse is technical as they claimed. they claim election will be done in coming fall-2008. will you change your view of them and promote FPM up to a political party,at least?

The party has aqnd continues to revolve on GMA's person and by extension his family. When the elections process was defined the VP position was not allowed to be voted on. It was linked with the presidential "ticket" to allow GMA to carry Bassil along with him without an explicit vote on VP. The Son in law was blatantly and arbitrarily handed the most important FPM ministerial position, and nepotism is is the ugly sister of feudalism.

Joseph, you have a point here! though does this decision confine all the other FPMers' contributions and achievements? FPM still a very young political party in Lebanon as compared to other feudal and militia parties. can we give them a slack, let's say a year and election favor to prove themselves. if they are not up to it, vote them out next time around and get the best in the political arena. is that too much to ask, given the fact that we have been trying the others from at least 18 yrs-end rsults are more corruption, feudalism, nepotism, and all the bad-ism you can think of. In the USA this is happening in every election, voters always go with the ones who provide rsults and changes in their well being. why can't we do the same and judge our PMs actions and contributions when their terms are due?

Yes I think we shouldn't vote for any Feudal or warlords or militia leaders in the upcoming elections. We should also shun any wannabe neo-feudals as well. This means no Amal, no LF, no FPM, no HA, no Hariri, no Jumblat, no Skaff, No Arslan, No Murr, No gmayel, No No No.............

lah lah mabida kil hal 2ad ya Joseph, again collective punishments for all-no good! How many FPM MPs are feudal or warlord as compared to others??

[Salome]

Originally Posted by sarhay

Salome, do you mean by Robert Michels, the German sociologist?

Yes, and his theory about the "iron law of oligarchy".

Between it is interesting the idea of Karl Popper, the guarantee of a real democracy is that you can always change the leaders, a mechanism which provides that if a political leader fails, he could be dismissed.

Sadly we can not say Lebanon developed such mechanism, it has become rather a failing state as a result of its many failing leaders.

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Yes I think we shouldn't vote for any Feudal or warlords or militia leaders in the upcoming elections. We should also shun any wannabe neo-feudals as well. This means no Amal, no LF, no FPM, no HA, no Hariri, no Jumblat, no Skaff, No Arslan, No Murr, No gmayel, No No No.............

That would be just gorgeous to not to vote for any ex-warlords or corrupt feudals! Then you would have just one party left to vote, FPM.
I totally refuse mentioning FPM with the other parties in one day, not to mention the accusation they having neo-feudal tendencies. Either you dont see or dont want to see what FPM is about.

If you dont vote for FPM neither, then you just abstain, though knowing you had the chance to make a difference.