FPM elections

[elador]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Yeah, because the way the party is doing now is great huh ?

You should listen to Watani, she knows a couple of things. ;)

FPM is governed by one man who is fighting multiple wars on multiple fronts and the last thing on his mind is his party.

Dude, the party is tribe now, it's completely useless, there are no by-laws, no structures, no nothing.
It works on the word of Michel Aoun, while it should be self sufficient.

When you people start to realize that the party needs to do something to get out of its coma, then we can believe that these FPMers really want a progressive country.
Wlak if you're not even capable of applying the rules of democracy on yourself, how would you apply them on others ?


As for that, well, if you have an inferiority complex, that doesn't mean that we should all pay the price for that.

Ya khayyé, Jean Kahwagi never fought a war whereas the fighters in Nahr el Barid have seen much more killing than him. Does that make him a worthless general ?

I don't need to get beaten up by anyone to know what's best for my party and my country.

And you're destroying every little bit of democracy that your party might have by favoring others because they got beaten !!!!!

Dude, get real, I really hope that no other than hanna think like you !

I know that international powers are working days and nights and paying billions of dollars to break FPM. after the last MP elections i stopped believing in elections anymore. what makes you sure that FPM elections wont be the best opportunity for those powers to change FPM's image? petro dollars will flow among some members, fake party IDs...


regarding my inferiority complex it is not personal. I gave an example of myself to open your eyes that there might be many FPM ID holders you know nothing about or they know nothing about what FPM really stands for. Not all FPM ID holders are true FPMers, some of them might have joined couple of years ago only to affect the elections or they joined only because their cousin asked them so. those are vulnerable to the petrodollar or they might be easily carried away by opponents media attacks.

One more thing, how can you have election in a party you dont swear to be loyal to?

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by elador

I know that international powers are working days and nights and paying billions of dollars to break FPM. after the last MP elections i stopped believing in elections anymore. what makes you sure that FPM elections wont be the best opportunity for those powers to change FPM's image? petro dollars will flow among some members, fake party IDs...


regarding my inferiority complex it is not personal. I gave an example of myself to open your eyes that there might be many FPM ID holders you know nothing about or they know nothing about what FPM really stands for. Not all FPM ID holders are true FPMers, some of them might have joined couple of years ago only to affect the elections or they joined only because their cousin asked them so. those are vulnerable to the petrodollar or they might be easily carried away by opponents media attacks.

The FPM accepted these people as their members, whether they're double agents or not, is FPM's recruitment problem.
They have a screening process and don't worry the only ones still in the party are the ones supporting Michel Aoun.

One more thing, how can you have election in a party you dont swear to be loyal to?

Nowhere in the whole advanced world (non 3rd world country) do members swear allegiance to the party.
It doesn't exist anymore.
Ba3den what difference does it make if you swore or not ? At the end of the day, these are non binding words, a smoke screen to hide the retarded 3rd world countries minds...

You've been living out of Lebanon, hopefully in Europe; give me the name of a party whose members swear to be loyal to

[GeorgeY]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Yeah, because the way the party is doing now is great huh ?

You should listen to Watani, she knows a couple of things. ;)

FPM is governed by one man who is fighting multiple wars on multiple fronts and the last thing on his mind is his party.

Dude, the party is tribe now, it's completely useless, there are no by-laws, no structures, no nothing.
It works on the word of Michel Aoun, while it should be self sufficient.

When you people start to realize that the party needs to do something to get out of its coma, then we can believe that these FPMers really want a progressive country.
Wlak if you're not even capable of applying the rules of democracy on yourself, how would you apply them on others ?


As for that, well, if you have an inferiority complex, that doesn't mean that we should all pay the price for that.

Ya khayyé, Jean Kahwagi never fought a war whereas the fighters in Nahr el Barid have seen much more killing than him. Does that make him a worthless general ?

I don't need to get beaten up by anyone to know what's best for my party and my country.

And you're destroying every little bit of democracy that your party might have by favoring others because they got beaten !!!!!

Dude, get real, I really hope that no other than hanna think like you !

for the first time i really like ur post cause it is constructive and i really agree with u on what u wrote up there

bass ya 3ame do u think u r making more construction than destruction in ur posts? if u r mad at something u really dont need to trash left and right work from within the institution whether it is there or not, dont start a revolt for nothing!!!

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by GeorgeY

for the first time i really like ur post cause it is constructive and i really agree with u on what u wrote up there

bass ya 3ame do u think u r making more construction than destruction in ur posts? if u r mad at something u really dont need to trash left and right work from within the institution whether it is there or not, dont start a revolt for nothing!!!

I think that enough has been said in a nice way for the FPM regarding the internal structure and mechanisms
nba7 sawtna for the past 5 years almost begging the leadership to do something about it.

Now the FPM is in a coma and it's on the brink of becoming another Kataeb (that's if it isn't one already).

So, if being nice doesn't help, don't we need to realize that this isn't the way to go ?

[freedom4ever]

Originally Posted by The Jade

I think that enough has been said in a nice way for the FPM regarding the internal structure and mechanisms
nba7 sawtna for the past 5 years almost begging the leadership to do something about it.

Now the FPM is in a coma and it's on the brink of becoming another Kataeb (that's if it isn't one already).

So, if being nice doesn't help, don't we need to realize that this isn't the way to go ?

I see it like there is a group of people who couldnt destroy the FPM/aounist from Outside since 20 years.
Now they succeeded, the destruction has began from the inside.

We are not asking for elections for the sake of having fun.

We are asking for it because we want this party to keep working in the future.
FPM is our last resort to construct this Country.

I dont know why some ppl consider asking for election as a destruction for the party and waste of time.

Ya khaye lets say we hate some ppl, if there is elections, and these ppl are back we will shut our mouths.

This is Democracy we will accept it, but plz dont try to convince yourself and us that, the "2adiye" is more important.

I start feeling like LF when they started killing ppl for the Sake of "2adiye".

Things can work in parallel, an Internal Elections For FPM is more Important that the Baladiyet Elections.

We might loose couple of Baladiyet for 4 years but we will win an institution for the future of our country

[elador]

Originally Posted by freedom4ever

I see it like there is a group of people who couldnt destroy the FPM/aounist from Outside since 20 years.
Now they succeeded, the destruction has began from the inside.
We are not asking for elections for the sake of having fun.

We are asking for it because we want this party to keep working in the future.
FPM is our last resort to construct this Country.

I dont know why some ppl consider asking for election as a destruction for the party and waste of time.

Ya khaye lets say we hate some ppl, if there is elections, and these ppl are back we will shut our mouths.

This is Democracy we will accept it, but plz dont try to convince yourself and us that, the "2adiye" is more important.

I start feeling like LF when they started killing ppl for the Sake of "2adiye".

Things can work in parallel, an Internal Elections For FPM is more Important that the Baladiyet Elections.

We might loose couple of Baladiyet for 4 years but we will win an institution for the future of our country

after last elections i am convinced that in lebanon (at least for the time being) elections = corruption = cheating = bribing

I am worried FPM election will be same like the MP elections.

that's why i am worried that the destruction of the party from the inside will be through the elections.

you are failing to convince me otherwise because you are not explaining how exactly the elections will help FPM. if you mean organization of the party at the lower level i agree with you 100%. but election of the high rank officials i say NO, leave it for the GENERAL, he knows better than the party ID holders.

who knows how many Mahfoud or zoghbi standards are there hiding behind their IDs?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by elador

after last elections i am convinced that in lebanon (at least for the time being) elections = corruption = cheating = bribing

I am worried FPM election will be same like the MP elections.

i am conviced that the destruction of the party from the inside will be through the elections.

you are failing to convince me otherwise because you are not explaining how exactly the elections will help FPM. if you mean organization of the party at the lower level i agree with you 100%. but election of the high rank officials i say NO, leave it for the GENERAL, he knows better than the party ID holders.

who knows how many Mahfoud or zoghbi standards are there hiding behind their IDs?

Elador, If Mahfoud and zoghbi look alike people won in FPM elections, that doesn't mean they can destroy the party.
The party sets a policy, and the political committee is responsible of that, it's not about 1 person only.
If one of the party's main cadres decided to drift away of party's policy and charter, there's a rule that will hold him accountable for his actions.
The internal law gives the FPM members the ability to protest against their leaders, and the ability to change those persons.
I didn't see how elias el zoghbi and elie mahfoud have affected the party negatively, so i don't think that we should be afraid of such persons.

[elador]

Originally Posted by John A

Elador, If Mahfoud and zoghbi look alike people won in FPM elections, that doesn't mean they can destroy the party.
The party sets a policy, and the political committee is responsible of that, it's not about 1 person only.
If one of the party's main cadres decided to drift away of party's policy and charter, there's a rule that will hold him accountable for his actions.
The internal law gives the FPM members the ability to protest against their leaders, and the ability to change those persons.
I didn't see how elias el zoghbi and elie mahfoud have affected the party negatively, so i don't think that we should be afraid of such persons.

1- who is the political committee? is it elected or appointed?

2- that's my point, they didnt affect anything because they were not elected, but if they were elected by the party members the damage would have been huge.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by elador

1- who is the political committee? is it elected or appointed?

it's elected. one elias el zoghbi or 4 won't be able to take decisions. decisions are taken by vote.

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by elador

after last elections i am convinced that in lebanon (at least for the time being) elections = corruption = cheating = bribing

I am worried FPM election will be same like the MP elections.

that's why i am worried that the destruction of the party from the inside will be through the elections.

you are failing to convince me otherwise because you are not explaining how exactly the elections will help FPM. if you mean organization of the party at the lower level i agree with you 100%. but election of the high rank officials i say NO, leave it for the GENERAL, he knows better than the party ID holders.

who knows how many Mahfoud or zoghbi standards are there hiding behind their IDs?

The logic is extremely simple:

If elected you are accountable to the people who elected you.
When elected there are 40 000 eyes on you and 20 000 people who would vote to kick you out if you're not doing a good enough job.

If appointed, who's gonna hold you accountable other than the guy who appointed you ?
And this same guy can't follow each and every person, that's why are there are so many bad apples around Michel Aoun.

Here's a small example about a bad apple in the FPM and I'm not doubting this guy's integrity, he was just not right for the job.
Tony Nasrallah, the former head of communications within the FPM.

The guy wasn't good enough for the job, FPM's communications problems were huge, and nothing was being done to change that.
It took 4 years for the FPM (read Michel Aoun) to change that, only because either the guy was too close to Michel Aoun, so it was hard to remove him OR Michel Aoun had only one head, 2 hands and 2 feet to wok with and didn't have time to assess the whole situation.

Tony Nasrallah as an FPMer is very good, he fought, got beaten, went to jail, etc. BUT as head of communications he was doing a bad job, and there was noone who could hold him accountable, because the decision (AND monitoring) was in one man's hand.

PS:Michel Aoun doesn't know everything, and it's a myth that he knows best, or else he wouldn't have appointed Tony as head of communications or even better, he wouldn't have replaced him with Nassif Azzi, a more incompetent person in this field than Tony,