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View Poll Results: Would you endorse the Formation of a Lebanese Senate?
Yes 26 63.41%
No 14 34.15%
Other Suggestions 1 2.44%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  (#11 (permalink)) Old
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Default 27th April 2009

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Originally Posted by Orange Patriot View Post
I'm all for a senate idea, as long as it means taking away just as many MPs from parliament to keep the grand total at 128 [or even less if i understood mickey's proposal correctly]. Or else we'd jsut have 162 politicans in this tiny country. We might as well all go down to nijmeh sqaure, all 4 million of us.
Actually, we could also limit the number of Ministers to a maximum of 16 or 20!
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Default 27th April 2009

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Originally Posted by dodzi View Post
Actually, we could also limit the number of Ministers to a maximum of 16 or 20!
Putting this kind of limits, whether on Parliament or on the government is not the way to go.

In a fair system, each MP would represent an approximately equal number of citizens. The number of MPs would therefore be variable, and increase/decrease depending on population growth.

As for the government, putting limits on the number of ministers is a rigid approach that complicates an already complicated situation. You cannot predict how many ministries will be necessary in the future in order to properly govern, and hence full latitude should be left to whoever is forming the government. If he creates 4 million ministries, the voters will hold him accountable.
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Default 27th April 2009

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Originally Posted by Souss View Post
Putting this kind of limits, whether on Parliament or on the government is not the way to go.

In a fair system, each MP would represent an approximately equal number of citizens. The number of MPs would therefore be variable, and increase/decrease depending on population growth.

As for the government, putting limits on the number of ministers is a rigid approach that complicates an already complicated situation. You cannot predict how many ministries will be necessary in the future in order to properly govern, and hence full latitude should be left to whoever is forming the government. If he creates 4 million ministries, the voters will hold him accountable.
I agree. What I really meant however, is that we should not have more Ministers just for the sake of representing all communities and minorities just for the sake of representing them in a fair manner.

There is no use for Ministers of State! They are paid and don't do much...
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Default 27th April 2009

totally against it.
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Default 27th April 2009

It is counter productive to introduce an all-new body in government that only adds to the sectarian-based structure of the political system. We want to abolish the sectarian system, not preserve and prolong it. So no, totally against any kind of system that is based on sect.

It should be written into the constitution of the country that under no circumstances should any official position, from an MP to a Minister to Speaker to PM to President to Commander of the Army to Judges, be decided or influenced by sectarian factors. Those elected and appointed into an official capacity should get there on due consideration of their merit and by the mandate of the people in general. Meaning, every citizen should have a say about every official capacity. Make all of Lebanon one electoral circle and give every citizen the right to vote for any Party or candidate they wish. Give the people the right to elect their President and Prime Minister, and even Parliament speaker if they want to. Make the cabinet subject to votes of confidence or no confidence from the representatives of the people. In short, give us our dues. Not yet another sectarian government body that will reap more of our taxes and do nothing for the people.
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Default 27th April 2009

There should be a Senator to represent all the abused maids and workers in Lebanon as well.
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Default 27th April 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Learned View Post
It is counter productive to introduce an all-new body in government that only adds to the sectarian-based structure of the political system. We want to abolish the sectarian system, not preserve and prolong it. So no, totally against any kind of system that is based on sect.

...
I agree. But there exist few ways to approach the dilemma of how to practically go about turning our sectarian system into a secular one. These can be instantaneous or slow.

- You either change the population: Export all the Lebanese to Australia, and import the Aborigines here instead

- Get a Lebanese Tito with a fist of iron to impose the new system

- Have patience and let the natural cycle of life and death bring forward a new generation -with ditto set of political leadership and leaders - (and hope to hit a lucky combination among these), and clean out the old one

- Start smoothly now with something new and make people learn how to appreciate it.. With proper preparations you might have a mechanism, say within 15-20 years, that might help you develop it into a working whole system. There are many ruling constellations one can play with, here's one example and i am sure your rich imagination can bring more:

Every six years, have, for a starter, a sectarian based Senate that gets formed alongside a morphed secular parliamentary system, elect a 6 headed ruling body representing a symbolic organ with few powers, called the presidency. Each year, one sect (of the major ones) will have its representative in that body as the President of that organ, with some extra symbolic bonus powers.

Let a secular parliament, voted by having whole Lebanon as one electoral district, be the institution upon which governments are built, and he/she whose party gets the most votes runs the government.

If you simultaneously finish off with the sectarian quotas in the public sector, including higher army posts, and put huge efforts in the education and media sector against sectarianism, i believe the above constitutional trick played on the population will pave a good way for the next stage. This stage would be the true secular political system where, at a certain point in time, no one would pay attention anymore nor care about who represents which sect in the Senate or in that presidential organ.

PS: As you notice, i am a true amateur in state building business and i am sure someone more knowledgeable here has already found a weak spot to puncture this outlined balloon through. Nonetheless, i think i made my point.
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Default 27th April 2009

I'm with a senate idea, whose role would be to preserve the identity of Lebanon that respects all the sects in it and not partition the system based on sectarianism, but protect all the persecutions that might occur since Lebanon is formed of minorities.
And of course, they should not add up to the other 128 MP we have now.Bikaffe hader
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Default 27th April 2009

I definitely support it but not on religious basis.
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Default 27th April 2009

The idea of creating a senate to represent all sects would be good only if;
a) we elect non sectarian Parliament,
b) the election law should be proportional
c) administrative decentralization
d) as first step to further changes like electing president and prime minister by direct popular vote
e) the senate president should be elected by short period of time (every 6 months) allowing every sect to that position
g) the senate functions should be very clear and precise like state budget, war declaration, international agreement, constitution amendment etc...
h) overall the idea of having a senate is like having a grantee for all sects in case we change our system from sectarian to non sectarian.

PS i still think Lebanon is a "secular" state since our constitution does not endorse any religion
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change, confession, confessional, formation, lebanese, lebanon, majlis, parliament, reform, region, secular, senate, senator, shooyoo5, shooyookh


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