Formation of a Lebanese Senate

[mickey117]

We already heard many times of the proposal of forming a Senate in Lebanon that would represent the different confessions and regions alongside a secular parliament where the mps would be elected on a Lebanese-scale proportional law.

Instead of passing by only the parliament, laws will then have to pass in both the senate and the parliament, thus giving veto power to the different Lebanese communities while having a real-scale representation of the Lebanese street.
I came up with a trial for the partition of this new senate, It would include 34 senator, about ¼ of the current parliament, so I made the calculations by considering every 4 MPs make one senator, of course there was a few sacrifices here and there, but I think it leads to better representation, the senators would be elected by only the electors of their confession in the area they represent (the representation will not be on caza of province level, but the seats of a confession will be dispersed throughout the entire Lebanese regions without pre-defined territorial divisions, so for example a maronite senator can represent Baabda and Beirut, and a Durzi senator for Baabda and Aaley). The senate will be formed as followed:
1 Sunni senator for Tripoly
1 Sunni senator for Aakar
1 Sunni senator for Minyeh-Donniyeh
1 Sunni senator for Beyrouth
1 Sunni senator for Sayda and the south
1 Sunni senator for the Bekaa province
1 Sunni senator for Mount Lebanon
1 Shiite senator for Beyrouth, Mount Lebanon and North Lebanon
1 Shiite senator for Baalback and Hermil
1 Shiite senator for Sour
1 Shiite senator for Bint Jbeil
1 Shiite senator for Zahle Hasbaya Rashaya Marjeyoun and West Bekaa
1 Shiite senator for Zahrani and Saida
1 Durzi senator for Baabda and Aley
1 Durzi senator for the rest of Lebanon
1 Alawite senator for all of Lebanon
1 Maronite senator for Zgharta and Koura
1 Maronite senator for Aakar, Becharreh, Tripoly and Minyeh-Donniyeh
1 Maronite senator for Jbeil and Batroun
1 Maronite senator for Kesserwan
1 Maronite senator for Baabda and Beyrouth
1 Maronite senator for Chouf and Aley
1 Maronite senator for Maten
1 Maronite senator for The Bekaa and the South
1 Greek Orthodox senator for Tripoly, Akar , Menyeh and Donniyeh
1 Greek Orthodox senator for Koura, Batroun, Zgharta and Becharreh
1 Greek Orthodox senator for Beirut and Mount Lebanon
1 Greek Orthodox senator for the Bekaa and the South.
1 Greek Catholic senator for Beirut, Mount Lebanon and North Lebanon
1 Greek Catholic senator for The South and the Bekaa
1 Armenian senator for Beirut
1 Armenian senator for the rest of Lebanon
1 Minorities senator for all of Lebanon

Note: Armenian Orthodox, Catholics and Evangelists are all represented by the Armenian seat, the non-Armenian protestants are included in the minorities seat.

The parliament would be formed of either 100 or 50 MPs, each party or alliance would have to receive 1% or 2% of the universal votes, this should be done in two electoral rounds in order to re-arrange the remaining seats which would not get a full 1 or 2% (or some arrangements could be done between different parties)

Would you endorse such a project, or would you oppose it? Do you have a better proposition? Or some corrections?

[Souss]

Good thread mickey.

If we are to have a senate, it should have equal representation for all sects. The idea is to de-sectarianize the Parliament, but to have another chamber where all sects have an equal say. So the number of Senators per sect would have to be the same. The question is, what are the sects that the State would recognize, i.e. are there ones other than the current ones, do you "lump" some together, and do you give seats for non-believers? Also, can we consider having senators by region vs by sect? By other criteria?

These are IMO the questions that we should be thinking about, as a national priority.

[elias-aj]

I have some reservations and I think that there are many issues which need to be adressed.

First of all being the implementation of secularism in Lebanon. You can't only impose secularism on the institutional level, here the parliament, even if a confessional senate is set up. We have indeed to implement secularism on a social level in the same time.

This means that in family and personal laws matter - for instance -, the state becomes competent and no the religious authorities and religious courts any more. And you need years and years to draft only a "code civil" project.

You have to change the lebanese mentality too and that's not the easier task... As we can witness it today, there is no lebanese nation but a country composed of different religious nations. While the hatred between the different communities disappeared, we didn't manage to restore confidence between them. Pierre is worried because he fears an islamist government and Mohammed is worried because he fears another decades of maronite rules. Both are wrong but we have to adress their fears in order to move forward.

To improve this situation and to definitely restore confidence, I think we have to work on our common history, notably the civil war events. Not through some useless commemoration. We all need to recognize our mistakes and to forgive ourselves. Then we'll have to define our lebanese identity and to accept it. This implying a social contract between us which would be realized through the building of a strong state, protecting and regulating our personal freedom.

This state would be of course secular and confessionalism would be abolished. The Senate institution would be, within this scope, very interesting as it would play the role of a counterweight vs the "secular" parliament. As an example, the senate in France is more conservative than the "Assemblée Nationale". If sometimes it is quite bothersome when the MPs are trying to pass a reform or so, well its role remains interesting as it often prevents some unbalanced laws.

Second thing is the question regarding our political system. What would we prefer ? A strict separation of powers and a presidential system like the one existing in the U.S. ? A mix between a presidential and parliamentary system - with many rationalizations provisions - like the french one ? A strict parliamentary system (french fourth republic) which could really be too unstable ?

The powers and the efficiency of a lebanese senate depends on the answer we give and the solution we adopt.

Third thing, we have to be aware that a bi-cameral Parliament may lead to freezing situations. We would have indeed, two chambers opposing theirselves but both enjoying a popular legitimacy as both are elected by the people. We will have to foresee some rationalization's mechanisms to prevent those kind of situation or... either not to make the senators elected by the people but by - for instance - the mayors (or anybody else) and decrease the powers of the senate, or to give to the executive power (the president), the right to dissolve the parliament.

It's a good constitutional topic mikey117... I could spend hours discussing it but well, posts will look like some boredom legal articles.

[Arze]

اكيد ضد هالقانون
شو بعد ناقصنا حرامية!!!! الي عنا بيكفوا وبيوفوا

[revolution425]

I think it would be a waste of resources with no real value on the ground.

[dodzi]

Michael, first, if the Senate will be created to eliminate sectarianism from Parliament, then the Senators will not be elected by region, but by confession.

Hence, each elector will vote for the representative of his community. Hence, Maronites from North to South will vote for the same lists, same for the Sunnis, Shiites, Armenian Catholics, Orthodox....

The Parliament on the other hand will be based on the regions...

Also, all laws will not have to be voted by both Senate and Parliament. Laws that are of economic nature will only pass through Parliament, while laws relating to the civil code will pass by both Senate and Parliament.

[mickey117]

Originally Posted by Arze

اكيد ضد هالقانون
شو بعد ناقصنا حرامية!!!! الي عنا بيكفوا وبيوفوا

If you make a 50 member parliament with a 34 member Senate, you have 84 congressmen :S less thieves than we have now!

Originally Posted by revolution425

I think it would be a waste of resources with no real value on the ground.

Please elaborate...

[revolution425]

Originally Posted by mickey117

If you make a 50 member parliament with a 34 member Senate, you have 84 congressmen :S less thieves than we have now!



Please elaborate...

Khayi mickey,what would the job of the senate be?

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by revolution425

Khayi mickey,what would the job of the senate be?

Represent confessions, while MPs will represent regions.

Currently, MPs represent both regions and confessions, which not only presents them with a political dilemma, but also create problems for the work of the parliament itself!

[Orange Patriot]

I'm all for a senate idea, as long as it means taking away just as many MPs from parliament to keep the grand total at 128 [or even less if i understood mickey's proposal correctly]. Or else we'd jsut have 162 politicans in this tiny country. We might as well all go down to nijmeh sqaure, all 4 million of us.