FM buying People: The Metn Saga

[Ra7 NEB2A Hon]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

First, I think it's better to refrain from calling them "simple minded people" as you would agree the term has some negative connotation, many people are needy and would sell their vote and they're not "simple minded".

I would be interested to know more about the awareness campaign and I doubt that a one-liner on tayyar.org is the answer.

i feel i was nice enough calling the ones who sell their votes (under any conditions) by "simple minded people", next time i should use the term " people without dignity"

regarding the awareness campaign, no one-liner on tayyar.org is not the answer, the answer is within the speech of GMA in Jezzine and all his other speeches.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Ra7 NEB2A Hon

i feel i was nice enough calling the ones who sell their votes (under any conditions) by "simple minded people", next time i should use the term " people without dignity"

regarding the awareness campaign, no one-liner on tayyar.org is not the answer, the answer is within the speech of GMA in Jezzine and all his other speeches.

Ra7 Neb2a Hon, granted Aoun makes good points during his speeches, however that does not translate into a policy... such campaigns should focus more on the mind and less on emotions... if you call people names, they won't necessarily feel ashamed and stop taking the money - if that was the case, the country would have been cured by now.

[Ra7 NEB2A Hon]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Ra7 Neb2a Hon, granted Aoun makes good points during his speeches, however that does not translate into a policy... such campaigns should focus more on the mind and less on emotions... if you call people names, they won't necessarily feel ashamed and stop taking the money - if that was the case, the country would have been cured by now.

i totally agree with you.
tayyib from your point of view how this issue can be solved?
FPM from the first day was warning and talking about this issue, i personally have attended more than one conference organized by FPM to create the awareness about the danger of the electoral money.
GMA and all fpm leaders rarely forget to mention this point in all their speeches.
what can be done more by fpm???
if you have new ideas please let us know, let's do some brainstorming.

[sarhay]

This news is nothing extraordinary about election time in Lebanon. It was just a matter of time for "clientilism" to seap into the basement and rattles its foundation temporary. Whether the news was a liner or a page and whether calling needy people names or not such arguments do not offer deterrence to people to change the course of their actions, especially needy people, nor educate them about their voting choice. The important thing in this election is to focus part of the campaign to provide awareness for voters about the relevance of changing the governing class to new ones with proven public records. Moreover, it is equally important to drive the message home on the consequences of this voting event and on the power of voters in bankrupting the current majority's political career and legitimate power. Change has to start and legislation change is the gate to enter into new and better "country", one can hope!

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by Ra7 NEB2A Hon

i totally agree with you.
tayyib from your point of view how this issue can be solved?
FPM from the first day was warning and talking about this issue, i personally have attended more than one conference organized by FPM to create the awareness about the danger of the electoral money.
GMA and all fpm leaders rarely forget to mention this point in all their speeches.
what can be done more by fpm???
if you have new ideas please let us know, let's do some brainstorming.

Nothing can be done by FPM, it needs two to Tango, you cannot build a democracy if you do not believe in democracy, for years Quebec wanted to separate, they were flirting with the idea ever since TV was black in white and in the last referendum they lost by some 50,000 votes yet they decided not separate by force when they could have said cheating was the solution and separate by force and start fighting the government by force, they said OK we respect the laws we decided we should stick by.
When you don't respect the laws you write it means you are ready to throw civic means away and use the law of the jungle. What could the government of Canada do if Quebec separated against the law? send the army to quell them and start a war? would Quebec have been happy? would the people of all canada be happy? they both chose to respect the laws they wrote. It means that the people of Canada decided to solve their problems by sticking to certain laws they wrote, then the governing of Canada is civilized the government represents the image of their people.
If the people of Lebanon elect people they give them money then tje prostitutes they elect represent them and they deserve them. What can FPM do in a jungle when they don't want to play the rule of the jungle? you just get eaten if you don't flex your muscles, these are the rules of jungle.
It is up to the people to decide if they want to be civilized or not, you can only ask them to be, you can't force them, it goes against civilization.

[josein]

Since i am not familiar with the election process in Leb, i want to ask anyone that knows, if anyone pays money for the vote , how can he be sure that they will vote for him? is there any trick cuz the vote is supposed to be secret.

[Pasteur]

All candidates are entitled to know how many votes they received in each "Kalam entikhabi". In a certain village, most of the family votes in one "Kalam". this means the candidate can know approximately how many votes he received from each family.

[GMA forever]

Originally Posted by josein

Since i am not familiar with the election process in Leb, i want to ask anyone that knows, if anyone pays money for the vote , how can he be sure that they will vote for him? is there any trick cuz the vote is supposed to be secret.

Of course it should be done in secret and behind the curtain, so in principle there is no way for someone to know if you voted for him or not. This is why many people take the money and then vote for the ones they like and not necessarily the one that bribed them.

Many things were done in the past in order to check if the people are voting exactly for the ones that bribed them.

They lie to you:
- They tell you that there are cameras and they will know who you voted for (big lie there are no cameras behind the curtain)
- They forbid you to go behind the curtain (the famous elias murr syndrome which in 2001 appeared, asking people to vote for his sister without going behind the curtain, so he will know who you are voting for). Under normal circumstances, this must be stopped by the responsible for the "alam" but many dont abide by it.
- If it is a small town, they will calculate the votes and and check for differences (here they will know that some got paid and didnt vote for them, but they wont be able to know who exactly it was. Usually they accuse the ones that they doubt the most).
- They use some terrorist methods, like giving you the electoral list to vote, and after you go out from behind the curtain, they ask you to empty your pockets or check if you still have it. (This can be prohibited by hiding the paper in some sensitive places under the clothes or checking for places to throw it without that the mandoubin of the briber be able to find it).

So all in all it is about tricking and being tricked. So each one has his own way and his own tricks.

Very democratic huh!!!!

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GMA forever

Of course it should be done in secret and behind the curtain, so in principle there is no way for someone to know if you voted for him or not. This is why many people take the money and then vote for the ones they like and not necessarily the one that bribed them.

Many things were done in the past in order to check if the people are voting exactly for the ones that bribed them.

They lie to you:
- They tell you that there are cameras and they will know who you voted for (big lie there are no cameras behind the curtain)
- They forbid you to go behind the curtain (the famous elias murr syndrome which in 2001 appeared, asking people to vote for his sister without going behind the curtain, so he will know who you are voting for). Under normal circumstances, this must be stopped by the responsible for the "alam" but many dont abide by it.
- If it is a small town, they will calculate the votes and and check for differences (here they will know that some got paid and didnt vote for them, but they wont be able to know who exactly it was. Usually they accuse the ones that they doubt the most).
- They use some terrorist methods, like giving you the electoral list to vote, and after you go out from behind the curtain, they ask you to empty your pockets or check if you still have it. (This can be prohibited by hiding the paper in some sensitive places under the clothes or checking for places to throw it without that the mandoubin of the briber be able to find it).

So all in all it is about tricking and being tricked. So each one has his own way and his own tricks.

Very democratic huh!!!!

also, u can swallow the paper they give u when u r in the booth, unless they feel like digging in ur .... to check for it later hehe

[Gebrayel]

Originally Posted by Ra7 NEB2A Hon

i feel i was nice enough calling the ones who sell their votes (under any conditions) by "simple minded people", next time i should use the term " people without dignity"

regarding the awareness campaign, no one-liner on tayyar.org is not the answer, the answer is within the speech of GMA in Jezzine and all his other speeches.

who are you to judge people?
Please don’t tell me you are working on the ground convincing people not to take money...ur approach will only make them run.
Those people you call “without dignity” are people who have feed their children
Those people you call “without dignity” are people who have been presented with only one choice: PAY AND VOTE
i believe the equation is very simple:
-we should make people understand that this temporary relief is not what they should be voting for.
-The Lebanese people has been suffering for long enough they can still suffer for a short period of time
-FPM and its allies should prepare a clear and well documented Economical agenda to communicate to the public.
IT is true that getting out of this bad situation will not be an easy task and people will certainly not like it, but they should understand that not tackling it today will only make things worse