Federalism Reloaded

[General my General!]

I agree with OP, I do not see May7 being a challenge with respect to unity, at least not beyond the short-term.

Have always opposed a federal system. Besides it will only further cement the differences between various communities, rather than emphasizing their similarities. Having a federal system for such a small country and given that none of our regions are completely self-viable, means that the benefits of full fledged federalism would be very minimal except than to make some people 'feel good'.

I am very much in favor of a central and strong government, with the state providing administrative decentralization (i.e.deconcentration), but not political decentralization.

I also agree adequate public transport and services is essential, what we have now is quite pathetic.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by General my General!

I agree with OP, I do not see May7 being a challenge with respect to unity, at least not beyond the short-term.

Then you must check the feelings of the general Sunni and Druze streets vis-a-vis the general Shiite street... What happened might not be an attempt towards unity for some who weren't directly involved in the clashes, however many of those who bore the brunt think otherwise.

[ozzie]

If federalism means formally naming different regions by confession, and consequently encouraging or coercing mass migrations in different directions, then it's a disastrous idea. That kind of partition is tragic, and Lebanon is too small and too much of a mosaic to try it.

If federalism means decentralizing political power, and giving more autonomy to local/provincial governments, then it's a great idea.

[chafic]

Would decentralization really help solving the totally different political choices Lebanese groups have been taking since Lebanon was created? their different political aspirations? their mistrust of one another?

[sailormoon]

Originally Posted by Rye

totally against it... who does not like the country the way it is let him go elsewhere!

Well if we take a look at the immigration rate and if we see how many Lebanese are dreaming to go elsewhere we can notice that a lot of people do not like the country the way it is...

[Motorcity]

I think that federalism is a very dynamic concept that I don't mind taking another look at!

First let me conclude that the current system in Lebanon has proved nothing but failure, but here are some of the many issues that Federalism faces:

-Most Lebanese leave in Beirut itself. If Federalism ever became the wish of the majority of us, how will city be divided?
If it was to remain a unified city, the why ask for federalism, most of the villages across Lebanon are becoming weekend resorts for their original inhabitants!

-The complexity of Sectarian geography
most areas of Lebanon are pretty diverse, even mega mono-sectarian areas contain several pockets of large "minorities".

-Most of Lebanon's crisis were power grab. Federalism may not curb the testosterone of our leaders for clout, It takes visionaries to start a new system(America's founding fathers)!

-The context of the current crises itself touches the country as a whole: President of the Republic, defense Mechanism, National government & Electoral Law!

Thats all i have for now :)

[Libnene Qu7]

Originally Posted by chafic

Would decentralization really help solving the totally different political choices Lebanese groups have been taking since Lebanon was created? their different political aspirations? their mistrust of one another?

No, but it would help in developing the under-developed regions of Lebanon. As for addressing the myriad political aspirations of the political groups, that would require a brand new constitution.

[SeekNirvana]

At this point in time, federalism is way less sexy than partitioning. Many of the conditions needed to establish federalism are currently not agreed upon in the union. This renders the whole issue quite futile. However, with partitioning, the issues needed for agreement are less as [almost] complete power is given to the newly emerged countries.

I think partitioning is worth a look.

[shadow1]

Federalism is only a cosmetic remedy. How could you make a country out of people with fundamentally different cultures with all what that entails, different social traditions, political aspirations and allegiances to different countries? Lebanon is not Switzerland by any stretch of the imagination.

For federalism to succeed you have to have an atmosphere of tolerance in the country and that only exists notionally in Lebanon as a part of the usual mutual deception and delusional expectations in its population. When the country was created in 1920, it was stillborn then and what we are seeing today are the consequences of that one event.

Before you set out the academic conditions for federalism to succeed as in liberal and secular democracy for example, you have to ask yourself how likely it is that we can achieve these things considering that a disagreement with a couple of govrnment decisions nearly led the country to a full blown civil war and it might very well still lead there. Now are these people fit to co-exist?

[Libnene Qu7]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

At this point in time, federalism is way less sexy than partitioning. Many of the conditions needed to establish federalism are currently not agreed upon in the union. This renders the whole issue quite futile. However, with partitioning, the issues needed for agreement are less as [almost] complete power is given to the newly emerged countries.

I think partitioning is worth a look.

Originally Posted by shadow1

Federalism is only a cosmetic remedy. How could you make a country out of people with fundamentally different cultures with all what that entails, different social traditions, political aspirations and allegiances to different countries? Lebanon is not Switzerland by any stretch of the imagination.

For federalism to succeed you have to have an atmosphere of tolerance in the country and that only exists notionally in Lebanon as a part of the usual mutual deception and delusional expectations in its population. When the country was created in 1920, it was stillborn then and what we are seeing today are the consequences of that one event.

Before you set out the academic conditions for federalism to succeed as in liberal and secular democracy for example, you have to ask yourself how likely it is that we can achieve these things considering that a disagreement with a couple of govrnment decisions nearly led the country to a full blown civil war and it might very well still lead there. Now are these people fit to co-exist?

So basically you want to divide Lebanon into different nations?