Excellent interview - Général Aoun: "Pourquoi je dialogue avec le Hezbollah et la Syrie" (english & arabic versions inside)

[shadow1]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

1- Resigned as in given up, defeatism

True I have given up on the country. You might call it defeatism if you wish but I tend to think of it as realism. We differ on this point.

2- The first time the Hezbollah (was) addressed seriously was after Aoun’s return to Lebanon, before that it was only laisser-faire. In 2006 and 2008 it was addressed according to the US will and you know the results.

It would seem that we have irreconcilable views of Hizbullah. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong. At this stage I am not willing to change my opinion of it.

4- Don't agree. There is sincerity behind his and many others wishful thinking (like mine). Those who don't believe are afraid of the unknown and not capable to consider this wishful thinking (as you want to call it) as a real solution to the problem. You see those who didn’t despair in front of the Syrian occupation and thought that one day the Lebanese will reclaim their country believe that there is a solution.

Yes there are some who didnt despair but there are many more who left the country and continue to do so.
but s get this straight. The Lebanese did not liberate their country. It was the Americans who decided that they no longer want to pander to the Syrian regime. As you recall the Lebanese were never of one opinion about it which makes you wonder how they could ever be united on the future of the country when something as fundamental as occupation had practically the support of the majority of the people. What I am saying is that in essence we are not united by a common vision of the country. Actually we never were. Even this Lebanon First cr*ap is hard to swallow let alone believe.

Those who advocated the moderate line during occupation are the same defeatists ruling the country with no solution whatsoever for the country. Just rule with whatever master you have for the moment. There is a solution for this country and I as the General and many others believe in.

I stopped believing in the tooth fairy long long time ago. I will only believe it when i see it. You are confusing here a solution with your idea of a solution. It's not enough to offer ideas, anyone could come up with a set of ideal circumstances. the point is and always has been how implementable are they?

5- The separation is the cause of the problem and you're just repeating the same mistakes as before. .

You cant say that as it has not been tried before. So your assumption is highly hypothetical. You may be right but we dont know. All we know at this stage is that every 15-20 years we have a a destructive war.
Even now teh FPM is regarded as anti Sunni and the FM as anti shiite and HA as anti everyone basically.

It is the nihilistic attitude of the people that is the main root of the problem

I agree with that. The causes of it is again lack of a common approach to the state and the rule of law. IF we solve this issue we might get somewhere. I take the view that it's not probable.

6- “… one culture” That’s racism! About tolerance it’s a matter of education, let us separate religion from the state and you will se the rise of tolerance. Normaly we fight racism with tolerance!

I dont know how you linked racism to the idea of us not having one culture. There are countless number of countries in the world with diverse cultures. Many have succeeded in forging peace between the people and many have failed.
what is the solution you propose if you cant separate religion from politics? Eternal bloodshed?

7- It’s your opinion.

Absolutely and I stick by it.

فلبنان متعدد دينيا وتقاليدنا قائمة على المسامحة والانفتاح والملصحة هي الطريق الوحيدة من اجل العيش المشترك.

My question here is if our traditions are based on openness and tolerance why have we had so many wars so far? And why was the civil war so brutal and savage on everyone?

[Amirkani]

Shadow, whenever I am in desperate need for a healthy dose of optimism in my life, I find myself searching for your posts :)

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[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by shadow1

Yes there are some who didnt despair but there are many more who left the country and continue to do so.
but s get this straight. The Lebanese did not liberate their country. It was the Americans who decided that they no longer want to pander to the Syrian regime. As you recall the Lebanese were never of one opinion about it which makes you wonder how they could ever be united on the future of the country when something as fundamental as occupation had practically the support of the majority of the people. What I am saying is that in essence we are not united by a common vision of the country. Actually we never were. Even this Lebanon First cr*ap is hard to swallow let alone believe.

Agree, but you forgot about Aoun in the congress. The problem is that "Lebanon first" equals "My interest first". You have the same clique ruling and you expect change?? The problem is that the country has been ruled by incompetent people for ages now. When people start electing competent rulers then you will see change.

Originally Posted by shadow1

I stopped believing in the tooth fairy long long time ago. I will only believe it when i see it. You are confusing here a solution with your idea of a solution. It's not enough to offer ideas, anyone could come up with a set of ideal circumstances. the point is and always has been how implementable are they?

Once again you need competent politicians to implement them. Believe me Lebanon is an easy country if you have census in the leadership... If you understand by what I mean by nihilistic people then you surely understand what I mean by easy. It is also a danger to answer your last question also.

Originally Posted by shadow1

You cant say that as it has not been tried before. So your assumption is highly hypothetical. You may be right but we dont know. All we know at this stage is that every 15-20 years we have a a destructive war.
Even now teh FPM is regarded as anti Sunni and the FM as anti shiite and HA as anti everyone basically.

The country was on the brink of breaking up during the civil war, but then Aoun popped up. You must not forget the reason behind his popularity and why people from all sects rallied behind him. It was a political will that destroyed him October 13 1990 and not a sectarian will.

Why didn't Lebanon end up like Yougoslavia? Was it because of Pax Syriana or something else?

Originally Posted by shadow1

I dont know how you linked racism to the idea of us not having one culture. There are countless number of countries in the world with diverse cultures. Many have succeeded in forging peace between the people and many have failed.
what is the solution you propose if you cant separate religion from politics? Eternal bloodshed?

A country of one culture is a racist country for me. What did you then mean by "Unity is achievable when the population of the country belong to one culture"? There is no country in the world made of one culture. Some are trying but having major difficulties.

Why should I give up separating religion from the state?

Originally Posted by shadow1

My question here is if our traditions are based on openness and tolerance why have we had so many wars so far? And why was the civil war so brutal and savage on everyone?

The nihilistic approach and the rule by incompetent people... but they are competent in one domain, using religion for political gains.

Give a gun to man and tell him to fight for his life and religious believe. Who is starting the fight and why?

[ecce homo]

"Why I dialogue with Hezbollah and Syria"

When in February 2006, the Christian leader general Michel Aoun, symbolic of a free Lebanon began a dialogue with Hezbollah, many Christians did not understand it. How can such leader, which between 1982 and 1990 had fought with weapons in hand, the Religious Shiite Muslim party backed by Iran, is now able to compromise with "these religious fanatics extremists?

Similarly, when the fiery General, one of the few Lebanese leaders to resist the Syrian occupation troops until their departure from Lebanon in 2005, was on a trip to Damascus in 2008 to give a hug of peace to President Bashar Assad; An initiative coolly received by some of his fellow citizens. Reconciliation with Syria? What treachery! Had Michel Aoun lost his mind to collude with the enemy? So many Lebanese had died because of those Syrians who had occupied the country in a brutal way for 29 years.

From his home in Rabieh, and following a long meeting with the PM-Designate Saad Hariri who has been trying to form a government for over 4 months, General Michel Aoun has agreed to receive "Pelerin," to explain the reasons for this unexpected reconciliations. General Aoun, a 74-year-old man remains alive and lucid. His tone is sometimes authoritarian, but his words are weighed, and thoughtful. They are those of a pragmatist, who knows why he has turned the page.

Luke Balbont: Many French, Christian or not, still do not understand your reconciliation with Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite pro-Iranian religious party, which is considered hazardous, or even terrorist. Why this dialogue that has surprised lot of parties?

General Aoun: We cannot eternally live in the rejection and denial. The war is over. Lebanon should be rebuilt with the help of all Lebanese. The Shiite community is 1 / 3 of the Lebanese population. Can we build a nation by passing over 30% of its citizens? Although not all Shias militate for Hezbollah, and there are different sensitivities among themselves (secular, progressive, pro-Syrian Amal movement, etc.) but they all recognize the courage of the party that fought to liberate the country.

Hezbollah spread fear in France, Europe and in a vast majority of Westerners....

France, Europe, and the United States are far away from Lebanon. We, Lebanese Christians live with the Lebanese Shiite supporters of Hezbollah since always. We have common roots, nationality, and traditions. We must work together. I am secular and Christian and I do not share all the beliefs of Hezbollah, but democracy is to recognize our differences and we all agree to form a community. In any case, those who tried to fight Hezbollah with weapons are never able to eradicate it, dialogue is the most effective weapon. I also fought Hezbollah.

However, today I turned the page. We need an atmosphere of confidence in order to build peace. Lot of blood was shed in Lebanon; however, every war must end some day. Contrary to what Westerners generally believe, activists or sympathizers of Hezbollah are Lebanese citizens who have nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

Many believes, in Lebanon or elsewhere, that Hezbollah’s fighters are trying to build a state within a state, what do u have to say about such theory?

I am not naive and the leaders of Hezbollah are not irresponsible. Like all men in this country, they want to work in peace, raise their families, and have a future for their children. Mr. Nasrallah, Hezbollah’s leader is an honest, pragmatic, and thoughtful man. He knows there will never be a Muslim state in Lebanon. Our country is religiously diverse and our traditions are based on tolerance and openness. Reconciliation is the only way for coexistence.

You reconciled with Hezbollah, so why not doing the same with Mr. Hariri and Geagea.?

We are in discussion with Hariri, and we are making progress. You just saw him leaving my house. However, with the Lebanese Forces leader Samir Geagea discussion is more difficult. Some of his supporters want the partition of Lebanon, while we the Free Patriotic Movement, (the Aounist party), we are working to unify Lebanon. We want to live together, Christians and Muslims, in one Homeland called Lebanon.

Why this rapprochement with Syria, which occupied Lebanon for more than 29 years, and even, harmed many of your friends? You yourself have fought the Syrian army fiercely, can you explain?

The Syrians are now home, we must make peace with them. They no longer occupy our country. They are our neighbors and we need each other. Our economies are linked. We first build Lebanon with its close neighbors, which is Syria, and not with America or France. To thrive, our country needs security, needs a calm regional situation, and mostly it needs to have a trusting relationships with neighboring countries.

Is the Christian forgiveness makes you acts this way?

I am a Christian believer. Forgiveness is an internal and intimate process. However, in my decision to reconcile with my former opponents, reason and pragmatic vision of the situation have prevailed. In my opinion, to build peace you have to start with relatives first, thus nearby countries.

Religion is pervasive in a country where many faiths live together. Do you think that Lebanon plagued by sectarianism is governable?

I am against sectarianism, but we must stop blaming religions. If Lebanon has difficulty is primarily due to social injustice and corruption. Sectarianism and religion should not be blamed always for the negligence, incompetence, and dishonesty of the leaders who are the real causes behind the crisis in Lebanon.

Do you think that religions are the irreparable cause that restrains the unity and citizenship in Lebanon?

To answer your question, I would like you to take as reference the extraordinary document that was left to us by the late Pope John Paul II during his trip to Lebanon in May 1997. To be more precise, look at the apostolic exhortation where the pope recalled that in Lebanon, Christians and Muslims should share power, in order to have sovereignty and to deal with foreign powers. He also said that the Christians Lebanese should participate actively in the political and social life of their country while being proud of their roots as “Christians and Arabs.” This text is still the example that we must follow. It is a spiritual vision that applies to the country's political life.

Translated by- Hala Najjar, (Tayyar.org English staff.)

[shadow1]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

Shadow, whenever I am in desperate need for a healthy dose of optimism in my life, I find myself searching for your posts :)

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In that case then tell your friends in the forum not to accuse me of being negative and pessimistic.

[ecce homo]

By the same interviewer, LUC BALBONT, for LIBERTE, QUOTIDIEN NATIONAL D'INFORMATION -

Le général Michel Aoun à “Liberté”: “Le Liban manque de maturité politique”


Personnalité forte et incontournable de l’histoire et de la vie politique libanaises, le général Michel Aoun affiche à 74 ans une vitalité de jeune homme. Il nous a reçu dans sa résidence de Rabiah, sur les hauteurs de Beyrouth. Alors que le Liban traverse une énième crise depuis 1975 (le pays se cherche un gouvernement depuis juin dernier), il nous a dit toute sa détermination à construire un Liban démocratique et uni. Optimiste, mais lucide et conscient de la tâche et des devoirs qu’implique cet objectif.


Liberté : Depuis les élections législatives de juin, gagnées par la coalition dite “du 14 mars” (Hariri le sunnite, Joumblatt le druze et Geagea le chrétien), le Liban n’a toujours pas de gouvernement. D’où vient le blocage ?

Michel Aoun : La démocratie de la majorité élective implique des règles, et le Liban n’a pas de maturité politique suffisante pour se conformer à ce système. Chez nous, quand un parti gagne des élections, c’est pour gouverner d’une façon autoritaire, sans garantir les droits de la minorité perdante, car il n’existe pas au Liban les outils institutionnels nécessaires (Conseil constitutionnel ou autres) pour donner à l’opposition le droit d’agir et de participer. Ici, la formation d’un gouvernement provient davantage d’un consensus que d’une élection à la majorité. Alors nous discutons, mais ces discussions traînent, car l’opposition dont je fais partie exige des garanties.

Qu’est-ce qui pourrait faire sortir le pays au plus vite de cette crise ?

C’est une crise complexe, où les influences de l’étranger (Syrie, Arabie saoudite, Europe, États-Unis, Iran) se mêlent à la corruption généralisée. Mais nous avançons. Nous essayons de résoudre les problèmes en multipliant les rencontres. La machine a eu du mal à se mettre en route, mais peu à peu l’état d’esprit change.

Vous vous êtes entendu en février 2006 avec le Hezbollah (ndlr : parti religieux chiite). Pourquoi n’arrivez-vous pas à vous accordez avec M. Hariri ou M. Geagea ?

Avec M. Hariri, on discute et on progresse. Il sort de chez moi, vous l’avez sans doute croisé. Avec le parti phalangiste chrétien de M. Geagea, c’est plus difficile. Une partie d’entre eux souhaite la partition du Liban, alors que nous, nous travaillons pour l’unité du pays.

Si le Liban n’arrive pas au plus vite à constituer un gouvernement, que peut-il se passer ?

Mais nous allons en trouver un. Nous avons aujourd’hui des relations apaisées avec la majorité. Un accord est en train de se dessiner.

Beaucoup ne comprennent pas l’alliance de votre parti, le Courant patriotique Libre, (CPL, parti libanais et laïc), avec les religieux chiites du Hezbollah que l’on dit manipulés par l’Iran ?

Le Hezbollah est un parti libanais, qui a combattu et vaincu Israël pour libérer le pays. Son objectif de construire un pays uni et autonome rejoint le mien.
La communauté chiite représente un tiers de la population totale et beaucoup, mais pas tous, car il existe différentes sensibilités chez les chiites, sont des militants du Hezbollah. Si l’on veut un Liban libanais et uni, on ne peut pas exclure une formation comme le Hezbollah.

Une majorité de chrétiens libanais reconnaissent le courage et l’action positive de ce parti.

Le Hezbollah ne plaît pas à l’Occident ! Mais ce n’est ni avec l’Europe ni avec les États-Unis que l’on bâtira notre pays futur, mais avec les Libanais, tous les Libanais.

Pour résoudre la crise gouvernementale, les politiques libanais attendaient beaucoup de la rencontre qui a eu lieu le 8 octobre dernier à Damas entre le président syrien et le roi d’Arabie saoudite. Une fois de plus, le Liban compte sur les autres…

Je le déplore et je l’ai dit : la crise doit se régler entre Libanais. Mais tant de partis chez nous dépendent des influences étrangères.

[roch10452]

what are the convictions of Hezbollah that Aoun doesnt agree with?