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  (#31 (permalink)) Old
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Default 26th July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jade View Post
This is very nice and poetic. And everyone claims that he wants to help his countrymen.
This is not the problem we're facing. It's the way to get there that's annoying.

The aim of the FPM is to help their countrymen, but as long as it's a farm and a one man show it can never get there

The problem with personal initiatives is that more often than not they stay personal because not enough people hear about them.

You'll have to work 100 times harder to be able to get to your goal.
Whereas if it's under a party's auspices, it's faster, easier and better organized since you'll have access to the party's resources.

The problem now is that the FPM grew so quickly and so fast that a lot of bad apples have made their way into the very select supporters group.

And it's almost naive to say that whatever a guy does if it's a personal initiative and it turns bad it will reflect poorly on the person.
Since if a person affiliated with a party acts in a certain way, it's alway the party that gets the blame.

Other parties look for small mistakes like these to eat you during the 8 o'clock news and the media loves to help them get the message out.

I remember in 2005, some members here created the FPMM: Free Patriotic Media Monitor.
A great initiative and they were doing some great work.
At a certain moment the FPM decided not to be affiliated with them. They continued to work on their own for a certain time.
Now, the work these guys did reflected on the FPM (eventhough it was never affiliated to it) AND eventhough it was a great initiative, it was not supported by the party and no resources were offered to them.

Another idea, was The Alternative (the student magazine) that was funded by sponsors. The FPM decided to allocate the money for other services, and look at them. The LFs took over the student body while the FPM is completely lost.

You don't have a party unless you organize internal elections.

And as I said it before, you're trying to show us that these elections are not as important as people think. While the FPM is suffering most because of its one man show and because of the lack of organization.

And here's a question for you. If Michel Aoun dies, what would happen to the FPM ?
Who will take over ?

An inside current could start doing something to pressure the leadership.
You want to consider it a threat so be it. A lot of people sacrificed their lives for this party and if it shall fall because ONE MAN decides that no elections should happen then I would understand that they would threaten the leadership.

Small pressure groups could start moving, boycotting meetings, suspending their support, suspending funding, organizing internal petitions, lobby with Aoun's aides to get them to make him change his mind, etc.
I don't have a nack for re-stating the obvious and re-hashing the same issues only to re-enter into the same vicious circle.

No one disagrees on the ultimate goals, not you, not me, not the leadership and not the general base. Even "how" to accomplish these goals is not the major problem. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. You say internal elections is the only way. It's fine with me. Let's adopt it as "the" way of implementation to reach our common goals. I still have one minor problem though: "who" is going to make it happen?

I know you'll answer "the party". That's not good enough for me though because obviously "the party" hasn't made it happen yet. How are you going to force the party to make it happen? Better yet, "who" is going to force the party to make it happen? You will answer "the base". How come that base hasn't done it yet? I can tell you why but I won't.

You were complaining that your voice wasn't heard when you vented your concerns to the people in charge of the local meetings. How are you going to make your voice heard at the national party level if you couldn't even do it on the local level? I prescribed a way based on my long experience. You say it's the hard way. Sure it's a hard way and only those whose commitment is almost whole and not casual will succeed at it. But this will draw the line between those who end up succeeding in getting heard and those who won't.

You say an "inside current" or "small pressure groups" can succeed at applying the right pressure. Great. But are these small groups going to come together through God's will? Someone has to take the initiative and the risk... a personal initiative.

I have yet to read 1 post here saying "I will take the initiative"... "I will see it through"... regardless of what the initiative is. We're always counting on or "requiring" someone else to make that move and see it through. You will say that's the party's job. Sure and fine... but I will say then accept how the party is and let the party decide (PSP does that with Junblat) what it sees fit... it's not going to decide to do what "you" see fit.

And a last note about using a "threat" or an ultimatum against the party or its leadership. I wouldn't care to caution against them if I thought they could get you somewhere. They can only be counterproductive, even destructive. All they do is hasten the exact outcome you're supposedly trying to avoid.

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  (#32 (permalink)) Old
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Default 26th July 2009

Dr May Akl in Australia: The most corrupt elections in Lebanese history.
14th July 2009

Listen (in English): http://www.marhabalubnan.org/15jul09/part6.ram


-----------------------------


Dr Pierre Raffoul in Australia: FPM will play an important role in Lebanon's future
12th July 2009

Listen (in Arabic): http://www.marhabalubnan.org/15jul09/part5.ram


-----------------------------


PS. You need RealPlayer to listen
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  (#33 (permalink)) Old
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Default 27th July 2009

I think that FPM should react by focusing on winning the "municipality" and "makhtara" elections !! this would be the best preparation for 2013
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Default 27th July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by AchraFPM View Post
I think that FPM should react by focusing on winning the "municipality" and "makhtara" elections !! this would be the best preparation for 2013
FPM cannot do well in these elections. Never did and I don't think it ever will. These elections are of a different nature and much less political.

It would be a mistake for FPM to hype them up and turn them into the yardstick by which its popularity is measured.

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  (#35 (permalink)) Old
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Default 27th July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amirkani View Post
FPM cannot do well in these elections. Never did and I don't think it ever will. These elections are of a different nature and much less political.

It would be a mistake for FPM to hype them up and turn them into the yardstick by which its popularity is measured.

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i 100 % agree. i always said that to my friends. fpm cannot do well in such types of elections. we should not count on them. we got all our mp's in 2005 and this year without the help of any municipality. on the contrary most of them worked against us.
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Default 27th July 2009

we can support people that are close to us

and work against the ones that worked so much against us in jun09.
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Default 27th July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannaalsayssa View Post
we can support people that are close to us

and work against the ones that worked so much against us in jun09.
This kind of participation is fine and necessary.

However, FPM shouldn't have its own lists. In many towns there will be pro-FPM candidates running against each other. FPM shouldn't get entangled in such family/tribal races.

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  (#38 (permalink)) Old
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Default 27th July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amirkani View Post
This kind of participation is fine and necessary.

However, FPM shouldn't have its own lists. In many towns there will be pro-FPM candidates running against each other. FPM shouldn't get entangled in such family/tribal races.

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absolutely

no need to create more enemies
let us make an example out of few rou2assa baladiyat ( by making sure they lose, regardless of who wins ) and let it be a lesson to others.

for example in my own municipality, i personally will vote against few members who are pro mou3arada but will support fully one member ( although he is close to lf).
baladiyat is a mine field.even HA who is very powerful in baalbek stears away from it.
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  (#39 (permalink)) Old
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Default 27th July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amirkani View Post
This kind of participation is fine and necessary.

However, FPM shouldn't have its own lists. In many towns there will be pro-FPM candidates running against each other. FPM shouldn't get entangled in such family/tribal races.

------------------
it's very stupid if some FPMers will be running against each other. im against overhyping municapilities, but FPM should have/endorse candidates all over the country, and especially focus on the key towns.

however, work should be done quitely and with a very low profile.
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Default 27th July 2009

العوامل التي أدت إلى حد من الربح المتوقع للتيار الوطني الحر هي : 1 - الإتكال على الحلفاء في عدة أماكن مما دعا الحلفاء إلى خسارة الإنتخابات قصداً ، لعدم بروز حزب الله في الواجهة الدولية كي لا تكون حماس ثانية يتناوله المجتمع الدولي ساعة شاء . 2 - العمل مع مرشحين زكاهم ودعمهم التيار كان مهيناً . 3 - شباب التيار كانوا مندفعين ومتحمسين ولكن كان ينقصهم الخبرة . 4 - إستلشاق شباب التيار بالمناصرين من باقي الطوائف
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