Coup d'etat: The only "Democratic" Solution..

[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by GMA forever

Well although I agree with y'all, but I am obliged to burst your bubble.

Under the current international situation, Lebanon's only chance right now is to survive with the minimum amount of Hariri damages. The kid has the support of all the world still, and history taught us in Lebanon that if we fight all the international community combined together, we are the only loosers here.

I know how frustrating the situation is, I know how much the sufferings are, but our only chance at this stage is to survive with the less Hariri damages, until a new world order is there.

Although I agree with what you wrote; opinion changes very fast when a mask will fall. Why do you think that Aoun has begun threatening with opening all the corruption files?

[GMA forever]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

Although I agree with what you wrote; opinion changes very fast when a mask will fall. Why do you think that Aoun has begun threatening with opening all the corruption files?

This was GMA's and FPM's plan from the beginning, the audit, opening the files of everyone who is accused of stealing public money. This is why actually he was faced with an all out war, from the medias to the rumours, internationally and nationally, attacks coming from everywhere. Countless millions of dollars were spent, just to not to let him get to power, either by winning a majority in the parliament, or by being elected president of the republic. They knew very well, once GMA is in power, all their files will be opened and everyone guilty would have been prosecuted.

The sad thing in all this, is that the normal people of Lebanon didn't care about where their money is, but rather went after primitive sectarian empty slogans, and the audit came to be something secondary in a country where you have over 50 billion dollars debt, more than half of them are stolen from the different politicians who were ruling between 1992 and 2005. It just makes me wonder if the Lebanese people deserve their politicians and nothing better.

[Robin Hood]

Originally Posted by John A

The situation in Lebanon is disgusting, i can't stand it anymore. Im fed up of the daily bickering, and fed up of the foreign intervention in our internal politics. The whole regime and constitution should be changed.

We've tried this fake democracy for too many years, and it didn't work with us. There's no need for elections in Lebanon, you can simply spend millions of dollars to fake the results, and get the majority.

A good portion of Lebanese doesn't know anything about real democracy, neither knows about the duties of the government toward its citizens. They simply think that if this leader or that puppet gives them $100 once per year, or if they help them to get out of troubles (some crimes for example), that would result of worshiping him, while that leader is sucking their blood and their money via taxes and small wars.

When it comes to law and constitution, no one gives a sh!t about them. You see those politicians amending the constitution for some unknown benefits, they break the laws whenever they want. They scr*w up all the protocols, and the Lebanese citizens clap for them.

The enemy of Lebanon is the ones who want to change the current situation, that's how most of the leaders think, and they push their followers to believe this lie. They start a media war against the reform, and they brainwash half of the Lebanese with some stupid slogans.

Political prostitution is applied in Lebanon, small puppets pop up on TV and start puking their disgusting dirt every day and every night. Their leader's adviser sends them a paper, and they have to read it on air. They are messing up with the Lebanese people's minds easily, and no one can stop them. The funniest thing is that when their leader changes his opinion, they just look like small puppies who don't have any idea about what's going on, but still they don't shut the hell up.

The Lebanese people has a very sick mentality, once you talk about the crisis, they blame "all" the politicians and start cursing them. There are some facts to consider here :1- Those people know who's responsible for all these problems. 2- They vote and cheer up for their leader whenever there's a chance to, although they know well that he's a devil.
Not to forget how they find excuses to cover up their crappy behavior.

Some people talks about reforming the state under the current system, and they truly believe that ! how the hell you can save a dead corpus from dying, using the same venom that killed it ?

IMO, there are 2 solutions to save Lebanon :
1- An atomic bomb to wipe this country and all its citizens.
2- A Coup d'etat, as fast as possible to put the country under the military rule, and we can go back to the 1918, and hang up people from their balls, whatever it costed.

I still now prefer the 2nd solution, and i'm not kidding about it. I don't blame the politicians, i blame the people only.I don't believe in this democracy anymore that lead us to our self destruction.

I vote for option 2, Arabs cant develop if it's not forces on them, they dont know what developpement and modernity is. I would like to have a "democratic authoritarian" ruler, like Ataturk.

[ius]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

Turkey has learned to live with Kemalism.

Remember in 2005 Aoun said that he didn't believe that the Atatürk experience would be right for Lebanon but seeing things developing since 2005 maybe it's the ultimate solution for the country, an imposed secular and democratic solution rather than agreed upon.

The distance between Kemalism and Nasserism or Saddamism or Assadism or the rule of jurisprudence is very very small. It could go either way.

[Robin Hood]

Originally Posted by Salome

Well I had the impression some here literally favour public hangings.

I really like the idea of the revolution, but I wish it would be the revolution of the minds rather, a collective enlightenment? A revolution or military rule forced upon from above, I dont know how that would be possible without bloodshed.
And what kind of military rule? a la Saddam, or Assad? I dont want to see a Hama in Lebanon!!

Therefore I support a revolution from down, from underground even if it takes that. We need a virus of enlightenment, which you can spread and would make the people suddenly come to their senses.

I cant believe in the violent way, and I guess neither does Aoun.

Collective enlightment? In an Arab country? Will not happen even after 2000 years.

[elias-aj]

You can't make a coup d'état in a country where the 3.5 millions of people living there are 3.5 millions dictators.

If you take History into consideration, you'll realize that no body was able to quietly rule this piece of land. The poor Byzantines had to deal with those maronites - who were already messing around in the country. The Mameluks had to deal with several insurrections and to raise huge armies to try to put out the frequent fires. The ottomans tried to control this piece of land but had to deal with druze and maronite troublemakers. The french had this instant of lucidity leading them to grant us the "independence", while they understood that if they incorporate us to their country, we would have managed to turn it into a huge greater Lebanon Mazra'a (man, they found people worse than their corsicans...). We managed to divide the syrian rulers during the occupation. Not to speak about the israelis who suffered their only military defeat against a lebanese resistance group while they managed to destroy every arab army.

Forget about any dictatorship and / or coup d'état in Lebanon. The lebanese people would make him so crazy that this poor dictator would have to be sent to Dar al Salib.

Huh, as Gaby Nasr said in one of his articles about Lebanon : Every 15 years, there is a guy who wants to liberate Lebanon from someone. In 1975, there was a war of liberation against the Palestinians. In 1990, there was a war of liberation against the syrians. In 2006, there was a war of liberation against Israel. Hope one day, some guy will be enlightened enough to liberate Lebanon from the lebanese. Mais les dents des poules qui verront ce jour heureux n'ont pas encore poussé...

On a more serious note, the only moment a revolution could have occured was in 2005. Too bad the "cedar revolution" led to keeping in power the people who were already in charge during the syrian occupation.

But my question : why a coup d'état while the majority of the lebanese are happy with the current situation ? Better a visa than .... ?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

You can't make a coup d'état in a country where the 3.5 millions of people living there are 3.5 millions dictators.

If you take History into consideration, you'll realize that no body was able to quietly rule this piece of land. The poor Byzantines had to deal with those maronites - who were already messing around in the country. The Mameluks had to deal with several insurrections and to raise huge armies to try to put out the frequent fires. The ottomans tried to control this piece of land but had to deal with druze and maronite troublemakers. The french had this instant of lucidity leading them to grant us the "independence", while they understood that if they incorporate us to their country, we would have managed to turn it into a huge greater Lebanon Mazra'a (man, they found people worse than their corsicans...). We managed to divide the syrian rulers during the occupation. Not to speak about the israelis who suffered their only military defeat against a lebanese resistance group while they managed to destroy every arab army.

Forget about any dictatorship and / or coup d'état in Lebanon. The lebanese people would make him so crazy that this poor dictator would have to be sent to Dar al Salib.

Huh, as Gaby Nasr said in one of his articles about Lebanon : Every 15 years, there is a guy who wants to liberate Lebanon from someone. In 1975, there was a war of liberation against the Palestinians. In 1990, there was a war of liberation against the syrians. In 2006, there was a war of liberation against Israel. Hope one day, some guy will be enlightened enough to liberate Lebanon from the lebanese. Mais les dents des poules qui verront ce jour heureux n'ont pas encore poussé...

On a more serious note, the only moment a revolution could have occured was in 2005. Too bad the "cedar revolution" led to keeping in power the people who were already in charge during the syrian occupation.

But my question : why a coup d'état while the majority of the lebanese are happy with the current situation ? Better a visa than .... ?

What we need in Lebanon is a military regime that cleans the country from sectarianism and feudalism. I don't care about all the other details.
The majority of the people can't take it anymore, but they don't know how to express their frustration, or they don't want to. Their minds are not practiced enough to stand against this sick situation. As i said they prefer to take 100$, over building a country.
So no they aren't happy at all, and no one can teach them how to change their mentalities.
Sincerely i don't think that FPM can accomplish this mission neither, in the present situation. FPM is a democratic party and will fail, not because of it's goals and the ways it applies them, but because the people are not willing to change. Some would say that we lost in the elections and we failed to convince the majority of Lebanese. But i won't sit aside and leave the country for this stupidity epidemic. I still believe that a solution can be found, and IMO the coup is what we really need.

[أبو ملحم]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Collective enlightment? In an Arab country? Will not happen even after 2000 years.

يا صديقي
ان تخلف العرب هو من العرب انفسهم
ان جزء من تخلف العرب هو نتيجة استضعاف نفسهم واستسلامهم المطلق والاعمى للغرب
ان تخلف العرب هو نتيجة احتقارهم لنفسهم قبل ان يحتقرهم الغرب
ان تخلف العرب هو نتيجة جهلهم لهويتهم واصولهم
ان تخلف العرب هو نتيجة حتمية عندما يتكلم امثالك بمثل هذه الطريقة
ان تخلف العرب ليس من الحكام... فالشعوب العربية عديدها اكبر
ان تخلف العرب هو نتيجة حتمية لشعب يخجل بلغته العربية في ملاهي الجميزة وال"سكاي بار" والوايت
اذا كنت (انت وامثالك) غيور على تقدم العرب وتفوقهم... ابدأ بالكتابة بلغتك... ابدأ باحترام اصولك

ملاحظة: من المفيد قراءة مقال الاستاذ طلال سلمان في "السفير" عدد اليوم في قسم "السفير الثقافي" تحت "هوامش

As-Safir Newspaper - طلال سلمان : هوامش

[Freethinker]

There is a 3rd option: Mandate (aka benevolent occupation). Lebanon had a period of peace and development during the pax Syriana...the main problem, however, is that the Syrian baathists are a bunch of corrupt and ruthless mafiosos and medieval throwbacks. So we need to find the right mandate administrator. Arabs are out of the question as they're still chasing their asses through the 15th century. None of the western powers will do, too much historical baggage and conflict of interest.

So I propose a Scandinavian run mandate of Lebanon for 20 years. Sweden, Norway, and Finland can rotate leadership every two years. Their mission will be the following:

- Guaranteeing Lebanon's security and territorial integrity, complete disarming of all Lebanese factions, and ground up retraining and rebuilding of Lebanese security forces
- Overseeing the complete elimination of the sectarian political system and a fundamental reform of the political, judicial, and bureaucratic infrastructure.
- Re-writing the constitution based on 21st century liberal democracy principles and complete separation of religion and state including civil matters.
- Implementing a broad re-education (call it re-programming) campaign that includes a radical new school curriculum and civic education program.
- Implementing an environmental rescue plan to save what what remains of "green Lebanon" and guide sustainable development.

Then, in 2029, we will have a real national independence day, the nordics will leave, and we will graduate as a true nation.

And how do we compensate the Scandinavians for this great service? Free one week vacation per year for all their citizens in perpetuity. Hey, that will also accomplish beautification of our beaches!!

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by John A

IMO, there are 2 solutions to save Lebanon :
1- An atomic bomb to wipe this country and all its citizens.
2- A Coup d'etat, as fast as possible to put the country under the military rule, and we can go back to the 1918, and hang up people from their balls, whatever it costed.

I still now prefer the 2nd solution, and i'm not kidding about it. I don't blame the politicians, i blame the people only.I don't believe in this democracy anymore that lead us to our self destruction.

Would you still like the "2nd solution" if it happens that you ended up on the wrong side of this "democratic" coup d'etat, looking at it hanging upside down?