Coup d'etat: The only "Democratic" Solution..

[Salome]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

In a secular country you treat all sects as equals. All has to obey to the same rules. Religion has no say in politics.

Yes true, but in Turkey it was kind of easier to force on the secular regime, in Lebanon you have 17 sects to deal with.

[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by shadow1

Turkey is now in the process of winding back the secularism imposed on it by Ataturk. If it werent for its fear of scuppering its chances to join the EU, it would adopt the KSA model of governance.

Furthermore, timing is of the essence. A coup d'etat would have been a splendid idea in the dying days of the Lahhoud regime and no one would have shed a crocodile tear for him but times have changed.

Coup d'etats dont work in Lebanon, 3azeez A7dab tried one in 1976 and he had a popular support but that ended up being a fiasco more fit for a cartoon series than the history books. The SSNPs tried one or were about to try one in 1962 and that bit the dust.

What Lebanon needs is Leaders who can negotiate with each other, a little less self-righteousness and more righteousness, some negotiation skills rather than sordid wiliness. As it stands today the country is split in half and while a coup d'etat might satisfy one half, the other half will forever be indignant. And believe me if a coup d'etat takes place today the only countries in the world to recognise the regime would be Iran and Syria assuming that it's your side which does it. And if a "neutral" side undertakes it, it will soon fizzle into a comedy of errors.

I agree with what you wrote on Turkey but remember "EU better than KSA"

The coup d'etat could have emerged during the Lahoud regime by Lahouds regime around 2000. We weren't far away an imposed coup a couple of years ago...

With the young leaders that we have now it will take ages before they mature. The country is split in 60% 40% not half. The 40% ruling over the 60% that's way the situation is absurd and ready to explode.

The LAF has still the rescpect of its people so it can be an accepted coup and a neutral one neither pro-west or pro Iran/Syria...

[shadow1]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

With the young leaders that we have now it will take ages before they mature. The country is split in 60% 40% not half. The 40% ruling over the 60% that's way the situation is absurd and ready to explode.
...

Your 60/40 is debatable let's give you 53/47 your way and I aint budging an inch more than that. Nevertheless that is too close to call considering that numbers and majorities are rather meaningless in a country with its own unique anthropological composition.

Not to worry. What i would disagree with you with is the point highlighted in red. Younger leaders are better equipped to lead you forward than jaded old men with way too much baggage and too many skeletons in their closets. Younger leaders represent a younger generation with its own way of thinking and aspirations. The old ones have long outlived their use-by-date and they are set in a certain mentality which makes it too difficult for them to break out of. For example, I would take Hariri Junior over Karami any day and Nayla Tueini over her grand dad. Let's back the future not the past. A major problem in our society is our leaders inability to know when to retire and go fishing. They ought to be taken from the parliament straight into the grave. Each thinks he is a saviour and we have all seen where this over-zealousness and life dedication have taken us to: DESPAIR

[Jean]

Shadow, who cares about the numbers and percentages of people who would agree or disagree with the coup.
It doesn't matter whether 1% agreed with it or 50%. We're talking about a way to skip our rotten democracy, and whatever this needs to make the coup succeeds.

[freedom4ever]

Originally Posted by Salome

Lebanon is not Iraq or Iran, there wont be public hangings!!

Remember the time of terror, by then the spirit of the revolution and all the causes were lost.

it is revolution and not taking care of people emotion.

Lessons should be learned!!!

[shadow1]

Originally Posted by John A

Shadow, who cares about the numbers and percentages of people who would agree or disagree with the coup.
It doesn't matter whether 1% agreed with it or 50%. We're talking about a way to skip our rotten democracy, and whatever this needs to make the coup succeeds.

You should care. No dictator has ever left power willingly and dictatorships are no fun. Coups d'etat invariably lead to them. That is from a theoretical point of view. From the practical side the nature of Lebanon doesnt lend itself to such thing and benevolent dictaors do not exist.

Frangieh appointed a military government in a desperate attempt to lead the country out of its trouble, its muslim members did not participate and that exacerbated the situation. again Gemayyel did a similar thing in the last day of his presidency and the country was none the better for it.
If you have a way oif tailoring a dictator to your liking all I tell you they start out being one thing and end up being another altogether.

THE LEBANESE ARE CONDEMNED TO CO-EXIST.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Salome

Lebanon is not Iraq or Iran, there wont be public hangings!!

Remember the time of terror, by then the spirit of the revolution and all the causes were lost.

Salome, don't take literally what i said about hanging. im not calling for violence, maybe it can be a peaceful coup without shedding blood. I don't believe that hanging the politicians or killing them is solution. The lebanese people will reproduce new similar leaders, and maybe worse they keep on applying the feudal system.
The military rule will help a bit to solve this problem, and im not talking about a temporary period, 15 years might not be enough to clean the country.

[GMA forever]

Well although I agree with y'all, but I am obliged to burst your bubble.

Under the current international situation, Lebanon's only chance right now is to survive with the minimum amount of Hariri damages. The kid has the support of all the world still, and history taught us in Lebanon that if we fight all the international community combined together, we are the only loosers here.

I know how frustrating the situation is, I know how much the sufferings are, but our only chance at this stage is to survive with the less Hariri damages, until a new world order is there.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by John A

Salome, don't take literally what i said about hanging. im not calling for violence, maybe it can be a peaceful coup without shedding blood. I don't believe that hanging the politicians or killing them is solution. The lebanese people will reproduce new similar leaders, and maybe worse they keep on applying the feudal system.
The military rule will help a bit to solve this problem, and im not talking about a temporary period, 15 years might not be enough to clean the country.

Well I had the impression some here literally favour public hangings.

I really like the idea of the revolution, but I wish it would be the revolution of the minds rather, a collective enlightenment? A revolution or military rule forced upon from above, I dont know how that would be possible without bloodshed.
And what kind of military rule? a la Saddam, or Assad? I dont want to see a Hama in Lebanon!!

Therefore I support a revolution from down, from underground even if it takes that. We need a virus of enlightenment, which you can spread and would make the people suddenly come to their senses.

I cant believe in the violent way, and I guess neither does Aoun.

[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by shadow1

Your 60/40 is debatable let's give you 53/47 your way and I aint budging an inch more than that. Nevertheless that is too close to call considering that numbers and majorities are rather meaningless in a country with its own unique anthropological composition.

Not to worry. What i would disagree with you with is the point highlighted in red. Younger leaders are better equipped to lead you forward than jaded old men with way too much baggage and too many skeletons in their closets. Younger leaders represent a younger generation with its own way of thinking and aspirations. The old ones have long outlived their use-by-date and they are set in a certain mentality which makes it too difficult for them to break out of. For example, I would take Hariri Junior over Karami any day and Nayla Tueini over her grand dad. Let's back the future not the past. A major problem in our society is our leaders inability to know when to retire and go fishing. They ought to be taken from the parliament straight into the grave. Each thinks he is a saviour and we have all seen where this over-zealousness and life dedication have taken us to: DESPAIR

I'm talking about youngster with inherited leadership like the ones you named. There others youngsters who can do a much better job and will mature much better.