The Coming Future, Questions FPMers need to Answer

[The Jade]

1- What will FPM do if HA is accused in the killing of Hariri?

Originally Posted by GMA forever

Facts, Facts, Facts. If the international tribunal presents facts beyond doubts that HA killed Hariri, then in my opinion FPM should wait for the response of Hizballa first and after that decide what to do in accordance.

Ok, first things first:

IF the international tribunal indicts someone it would be based on FACTS and only FACTS.

Second, Hezbollah (if indicted) are surely gonna deny it, so I don't see why we should wait for anything from them.

Third, Michel Aoun has always said that if his own daughter was indicted of something he'll send her to jail. So, the FPM should follow the law and start applying its own rules

2- You as FPMer how you will able to discuss this issue with other christians who think FPM did a mistake by allying HA?

FPM were never ashamed of their alliances, on the contrary, they always bragged about it since it was done by deep belief and not superficial personal gains. Until now all the accusations against Hizballa are just accusations, this is why it was rather easy to defend FPM's position in the Christian street, since there was never a proof that Hizballa commited any act of crime against Lebanon or the Lebanese people. So as long as the international tribunal don't give us real proofs indicting Hizballa in the death of Hariri, our position in the Christian street will stay generally the same.

FPM allied with Hezbollah for political reasons, not because of their acts in the Hariri killing.

But it should first and foremost wash its hands from any involvement in this and it should be the first to ask for the judgement of Hezbollah

3- Will that effect the christian street? Specialy the public of FPM? (in another word will FPM fans get effected and quit being FPMers?

I don't think it will affect a lot, maybe it won't affect at all too, since the Christian street is already polarised, the ones who are with will stay with, and the ones who are against will stay against.

You people should realize that if the FPM has lost some votes its because of its alliance with Hezbollah.
And even though I don't believe the alliance was a mistake (I even think it's a "coup de maitre")

I have to admit that it made the FPM lose a lot of votes.
And if the last elections results didn't teach you that, then you're in denial.

On another hand, the FPM will surely be hit by a Hezbollah indictment.
The public won't even bother looking further than the tip of their nose. And this is how it works anywhere in the world. (And you should've learnt that by now).

So, at the end of the day, the people will only hear that the FPM covered Hezbollah all these years.
Then we'll see if the FPM could elect ONE MP in Lebanon

4- FPM always said that they support international court, wont that effect there credibility?

FPM said that back in 2005, that they support the international tribunal, based on the fact that this tribunal is a fair and just one. Now seeing how the investigation was made, and how the different reports were delievered, I doubt that FPM still has the same belief in the integrity of this international tribunal and support it as in the beginning.

Would you quit with your double standards ?!!?

If the court would indict someone the FPM suspects of being the killer of Hariri (EVEN AFTER it saw the way the investigation has been made) it would accept the judgement directly.

So, if the FPM has still a shred of credibility at least let us NOT destroy it.
Because the way I see it, FPM's biggest ennemy is FPM itself.

5- Is FPM preparing there base by lectures or special lessons how to argue with other parties? ( what i mean is are they getting prepared for future changes)

Well meetings are surely being held, but nothing out of the ordinary, lectures, lessons are good, but more than that we need a well organised media campaign to explain to the whole Lebanese people and not only FPM what is going on, and after that the FPMers will as usual get all by themselves on the right track.

Yeah, we've seen FPM's media and communications campaign in the past 5 years.
It's either nonexistent or amateurish.

And I don't trust anymore the talks that "The FPM is surely prepared for that", because we've seen how incompetent some of FPM's leaders are.

6- If Hariri is waiting for the court to say something about HA so he pressure them to accept his terms in making government after the accusation are out, What will FPM do in that case?

FPM has very clear demands, either lil sharaka wa la lil sharika! If they want us with them in the goverment, they have to accept our demands, if they don't wish to do that, let them form the government without us.

IF Hezbollah is indicted that it would've lost all credibility and there is NOTHING they could ask for in return.

So, let's stick to our principles and do as the FPM has always promised. Follow the law.


PS: you can replace Hezbollah by any other lebanese party (including the FPM) and I would have the same point of view.

But please, we should quit our double standards and accept the law as it is, or else never make any promises again if it can't stick to them.

[GeorgeY]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Ok, first things first:

IF the international tribunal indicts someone it would be based on FACTS and only FACTS.

Second, Hezbollah (if indicted) are surely gonna deny it, so I don't see why we should wait for anything from them.

Third, Michel Aoun has always said that if his own daughter was indicted of something he'll send her to jail. So, the FPM should follow the law and start applying its own rules


FPM allied with Hezbollah for political reasons, not because of their acts in the Hariri killing.

But it should first and foremost wash its hands from any involvement in this and it should be the first to ask for the judgement of Hezbollah


You people should realize that if the FPM has lost some votes its because of its alliance with Hezbollah.
And even though I don't believe the alliance was a mistake (I even think it's a "coup de maitre")

I have to admit that it made the FPM lose a lot of votes.
And if the last elections results didn't teach you that, then you're in denial.

On another hand, the FPM will surely be hit by a Hezbollah indictment.
The public won't even bother looking further than the tip of their nose. And this is how it works anywhere in the world. (And you should've learnt that by now).

So, at the end of the day, the people will only hear that the FPM covered Hezbollah all these years.
Then we'll see if the FPM could elect ONE MP in Lebanon


Would you quit with your double standards ?!!?

If the court would indict someone the FPM suspects of being the killer of Hariri (EVEN AFTER it saw the way the investigation has been made) it would accept the judgement directly.

So, if the FPM has still a shred of credibility at least let us NOT destroy it.
Because the way I see it, FPM's biggest ennemy is FPM itself.


Yeah, we've seen FPM's media and communications campaign in the past 5 years.
It's either nonexistent or amateurish.

And I don't trust anymore the talks that "The FPM is surely prepared for that", because we've seen how incompetent some of FPM's leaders are.


IF Hezbollah is indicted that it would've lost all credibility and there is NOTHING they could ask for in return.

So, let's stick to our principles and do as the FPM has always promised. Follow the law.


PS: you can replace Hezbollah by any other lebanese party (including the FPM) and I would have the same point of view.

But please, we should quit our double standards and accept the law as it is, or else never make any promises again if it can't stick to them.

i really dont understand ur issue with double standards? r u trying just to attack FPM in a way or another or do u really believe in what u r saying?

just few words concerning double standards as u mentioned it... my friend those r not double standards those are opinions.
lets say FPM today says 7ariri is good, does that mean 7ariri is good for eternity to come? or FPM should make another party and disolve this one to say 7ariri is bad? same goes for HA. if they r really involved let the ppl involved go to hell (here are the standards).

concerning standards and rules and all this bs. THEY SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST. because if they did there would be no judgement on earth or in heaven.

i ll put it as simply as i can it is a philosophical opinion ur standards. for example if a man was dying of hunger is he allowed to steal food? but if he is allowed will FPM convict him cause he stole?

this is why there are majalis to listen to ppl that made mistakes!!! r the mistakes intentional are they allowed to do what they did eventhough they contradict standards?

back to tribunal, i never believed any "international" bs anyway, so i dont care what they say or who they convict for me it is 100% for the benefit of the "international community"

[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

As to my opinion about en eventual HA accusation of killing Hariri...To hell with the international tribunal and to whatever it can come up with. This institution has no credibility whatsoever and the mere idea of a non Lebanese court, mingling in Lebanese affairs is enough for me not to respect it, because it breaches my sovereignty.

This is where i differ with FPM and HA and everyone else. To me, the international tribunal in itself is neither legal nor legitimate.

It's an insult.

The international tribunal could be justified for two reasons in my opinion :

1°/ because it's certain that foreign countries (Syria or Israel or whatever) are involved in Hariri's assassination - that's the reason why this tribunal can be seen as legitimate ;
2°/ because ... look at us and at our country...if GMA himself who's very attached to the principle of sovereignity asked for it, it was for a very good reason. Our judiciary is for now like our political institutions. A mess that needs to be reformed.

I hate to admit it but, when we're not able to judge those who collaborated with the foreign occupying forces (Israel and Syria), those who slaughtered our people and assassinated many political figures...we're not even able to investigate a case like the Hariri case. Not to speak about any "fair trial" in such a case.

But I understand your position and tend to think like you. Although this tribunal is not exactly an insult but rather a shame for Lebanon and for the Lebanese, reminding them of their inability to even have a decent "contrat social"... However, the credibility of this tribunal was tarnished by Mehlis and so far, I don't know what's going on exactly. Looks like more professional though but we'll see it once the prosecutor will issue its accusation and disclose the evidences.

To be honest and even if it's quite off-topic, Justice can't be fairly served in Lebanon if we don't judge all those who took part in the civil war. If at least we were capable of doing that, we would deserve more to be called "lebanese people" and to speak about our sovereignity.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by LebReporter

The questions are:

1- What will FPM do if HA is accused in the killing of Hariri?

2- You as FPMer how you will able to discuss this issue with other christians who think FPM did a mistake by allying HA?

3- Will that effect the christian street? Specialy the public of FPM? (in another word will FPM fans get effected and quit being FPMers?

4- FPM always said that they support international court, wont that effect there credibility?

5- Is FPM preparing there base by lectures or special lessons how to argue with other parties? ( what i mean is are they getting prepared for future changes)

6- If Hariri is waiting for the court to say something about HA so he pressure them to accept his terms in making government after the accusation are out, What will FPM do in that case?

I realy want to open a thread so discussion can be open between FPMers and HA Fans regarding this subject.

my replies as an FPM supporter,

1- nothing

2- like i discuss anything else

3- it would effect the 14march christians, i dought, maybe the idiots and shallow minded

4- no why would it ?

5- as a supporter i don't know what FPM officials are exactly doing and planing, but till now i agree with their actions

6- keep walking :)

you're asking these question as if FPM was the Siamese-twin of HA,

[ohyeah]

Originally Posted by roch10452

we didnt stop accusing syria... we know syria is guilty of the assassinations in lebanon since 1970

the answer:
Kataeb and LF kidnapped more than 57% in Civil war
Israel 11%
PSP 10%
Syria 6%
Amal 4%

So,--according to ur logic - the 1st accusation must be on Kataeb.

we are not accusing Hezbo, and we hope he has nothing to do with it all. its just rumors that Hezbo people might have been involved. i repeat, we all hope its not true

Melhis is where ever he wishes to be

He must be judged for accusing generals without sufficient evidences. The law say that and I want u to join me in that.

Zuher Alsidik is related to the investigation, its none of my business to ask about his whereabouts

He accused Syria and you also accused Syria, So you are the same as him, at least in the level of creditability.


The 4 generals were suspects, and coz of their high ranked position in the army and the intelligence, they had to be arrested so that the investigation can work correctly
they are not declared innocent by the investigators, but until now their is not sufficient proves against them

that is part of the judje Francin said about 4 generals prisoning :

فرانسين: لا صدقيّة لما قدّمه التحقيق اللبناني لاتهام الضبّاط

in French :

PAS SUFFISAMMENT CREDIBLES

Syria commits crimes coz that is the only things syria knows how to do

refer to the civil war and remember what your party done there.
N.B just remember Dany Sham3on

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by Boris

my replies as an FPM supporter,

1- nothing

2- like i discuss anything else

3- it would effect the 14march christians, i dought, maybe the idiots and shallow minded

4- no why would it ?

5- as a supporter i don't know what FPM officials are exactly doing and planing, but till now i agree with their actions

6- keep walking :)

you're asking these question as if FPM was the Siamese-twin of HA,

Yes, Backbone, Spine, Finally someone!

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

If Hezbollah assassinated PM Hariri then they should issue a public apology and things are back to normal.

Seriously now, Lebanese have been killing each others for ages and still accommodating each others, what's different?

pardon, ma ba2a 3ida.

--------------------

[>Watani<]

Originally Posted by amirkani

pardon, ma ba2a 3ida.

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إنتو الأميركان الشيطان الأعظم
أكيد أكيد أكيد
بتعيدووا وبتعيدو بيّ بيّا