A church to be replaced by a mall in ashrafieh

[>Watani<]

Originally Posted by Diabolo_7

Regardless of who is willing to buy the old convent or whether the property is an old convent or a empty lot, did anyone comment on the fact that another mall in Ashrafieh will be a disaster?

During Xmas time, the traffic jam to get into or out of ABC is horrible. It takes you 1-2 hours in order to get into ABC. The cars will be backed up til Hamra... So you can immagine the traffic jams that result in Beirut due to that.

Ashrafieh as it is now, is overpopulated, with a with the addition of ABC and to a lesser extent Spinneys the traffic is unbearable.

Ashrafieh and Beirut in general dont have the infrastructure to support such malls.

In other places of the world, Malls are built on the outskirts of the cities, not in the middle of the most congested areas (as is the case in Ashrafieh).

Look at what the Geant Mall did to the traffic on the highway in that area. Thanks to Michel el Murr, it was built in the worst location ever on the Jounieh Beirut highway, and the traffic jam because of it on both sides of the highway is horrible (well at least during holiday season)...

I think both the proponents and the opponents of such projects should look at it from a different angle, and decide whether such a project would benefit the area...

في شي أسمو

[teshesh]

for those who know the building, can u give us some further description about it? i mean any artistic features in its architecture?
it is a pity that Lebanese people don't have enough consciousness about their cultural heritage.
instead of preserving everything that reflects the soul of our cities, specially in beirut, we choose to demolish and start over . the pretext is always the same: more jobs to the neighborhood, more money to the area, etc...

in lebanon, $$$ have the upper hand, even when it is the identity that is being bought!

[ceaoun]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Any occasion to get on the christian nerve is becoming one of OTV's and FPM's daily job.

Chou khassoun Nayla and Nadim ?
They're both not fit to become MPs, yes, but not because of this !
They have much bigger flaws that FPM should be showing.

Along with Saad Hariri.

We're concentrating on ridiculously religious stuff instead of going to the more substantial part of Hariri's and his allies' inability to run a country.

Again, what about the non-christian FPM supporters, do you think they would care about that ?

This is becoming ridiculous, OTV's news director should get a huge slap in the face and some FPMers should get a bigger one to realize what they're losing their energy on !

It is not about just religious stuff.
What is FPM facing?
Why is the battle in the Christian areas only?
Why and how the Hariris Christians are attacking FPM and GMA?
Why do we have to hide behind virtual screens and ignore reality?

Jade, I greed with you most of the time in your posts but here I disagree.

GMA and FPM were and still are being attacked day in and day out on "CHristians" issues. The only reason they are attacked is because they have the majority of the Christians with them. Once they loose this majority they will become less important. Whether FPM wanted this majority or not this is reality.
Again, you can not apply secularism when a huge number of the people still think secularism is the same as atheism.
One of the biggest mantra Christians pro-loyalists have is the "welayet al Fakih". Why is that? They know they can build up fear with it. They can steer people away from those close to those people who talked,remotly or not, about this idea.
Look at the incidents and political mishaps where Shiites were involved: the entire loyalist media played it to the last drop. Why? because it is good propaganda. Even if it helps persuade few Christians at a time, at the end it will help .
In this specific case, there is a real concern that this is just another step in the Haririnization/Saudinization of Lebanon. Why, in the name of God , don't you want to use it against those who keep on hammering you day in day out in those specific fields?
Of course FPM has so many other things to talk about in this election; of course FPM can beat Nadim and Nayla in other arguments, but why ignore something people are paying attention to? why not take it as an enviroment issue? why not take it as bad for traffic? why not take it as bad for local businesses? why not take it as eliminating some of the cities old treasures? why not take it as the same plan as Hariri the father wanted to do? why not use it to your advantage in any way you want?.
Once you spread the knowledge about the secular system,once you have the majority to implement it, then you can take the comfort of loosing the election based on informed consent rules. In other words, try not to loose elections just because the people didn't understand what you mean and what you stand for.
Play with the rules to win and then change the rules to play again.
Don't loose just because you don't like the rules.

regards

[superduper703]

How the heck did a commercial transaction turn into a political battle? If the Vatican says yes, then who are we to make a fuss about it? Are you more Catholic than the Pope?

If it's a question of traffic jams and the like, then it has nothing political about it.

[Tararamtamtam]

Originally Posted by superduper703

How the heck did a commercial transaction turn into a political battle? If the Vatican says yes, then who are we to make a fuss about it? Are you more Catholic than the Pope?

If it's a question of traffic jams and the like, then it has nothing political about it.

The main problem (at least for me) is not the fact that it's a church that will be destroyed... We have more churches than we actually need and it's a common thing that certain religious grounds become legally desacralized by the church to give way to some other profane development...

The problem is threefold:

- That we are so readily convinced that our architectural heritage is worthless when it comes to economic considerations. Beirut has been disfigured and the destruction process is continuing. Only a few isolated and threatened pockets still resist to the attacks of developers. As an architecture student, I love the beiruti streets too much to see them be replaced by tasteless, nameless machines of mass consumption...

- That whenever something is being built, it never considers the needs of the beirutis. There is never an approach that asks relevevant questions: what is missing in the urban fabric, how could we influence the urban practice in apositive way, what can we offer to the beirutis, how can we create social interaction, how to beautify our city, etc. Whenever a project sprouts out, it's always to offer more of what already exists in sufficient quantities, with the logic of maximal profit...

- That these project are being proposed, planned, executed and owned by foreign, gulf compagnies when the threashold of foreign-owned land has been crossed a long time ago. Not only are we losing our architectural identity, but we are throwing it into the hands of people that are ignorant of our culture, that have no attachment whatsoever for the land they're building on and that in consequence will never have any thought about the population that will welcome and bare their project...

[superduper703]

Thanks for the explanations Tararamtamtam. Very valid. But I'm simply rolling my eyes at some of the posters who have turned this into a political issue.

[Tararamtamtam]

Originally Posted by superduper703

Thanks for the explanations Tararamtamtam. Very valid. But I'm simply rolling my eyes at some of the posters who have turned this into a political issue.

Thanks

I guess though that a legitimate political aspect can be given to this case... It is normal to ask why certain candidates so eager to be elected to the Ashrafieh seats do not find it suitable to engage with such issues that really matter instead of staying at the level of populist slogans that have become abstract and antiquated given the new local, regional and geopolitical situation...

On the other hand, you have some people who do get interested in these issues... Nicolas Sehnaoui for example recently launched a contest for proposals among students of architecture and urban planning. The aim is to obtain suggestions on how to enhace life in Ashrafieh with the perspective of a growing population. Several prizes are to be given, and the winner will have his project implemented...

It's action like these that ALL candidates should take or propose... And when these lack in some candidate's speech, it is normal for his opponent to make this fact stand out...