A church to be replaced by a mall in ashrafieh

[Danny Z]

All of a a sudden you all became lovers of old "architecture".
Now what's the point of this found love? is it the church or the architecture? instead of writing petition, jam3ou ba3dkon and ditch money to buy it.
Unless it is declared a national parc or a unesco protected site. the owner of a property in a non communist country can sell it to whoever he wants, or else he will have to maintain it and that costs money. Just petitioning will not get him any money.

[>Watani<]

Originally Posted by december rain

concerning the gemmayzeh issue, the fpm did take a stand, u just have to look up articles on tayyar.org on this issue..... Fpm clearly in all the articles written by its reporters backed the gemmayzeh people 200%.....the question that should be asked is why the current mp's of ashrafiyyeh didn't do anything about gemmayzeh .... We didn't have deputies for achrafiyyeh in the past 4 years so we cannot be held accountable.....

The elections will be sectarian par excellence , you are right about that. So u think that fpm should reduce itself to a sectarian party ?we are better than that .. ma3leish, sma7ilna fiya hay.....so fpm shouldn't care about anything except the sectarian issues?

due to the nature of our country it is natural to tackle sectarian issues specially before the elections, and i am not against it and it is necessary at this stage because we are not a secular state yet, but while doing so it is important to gradually introduce elements of a civilized modern state and caring for the environment is one of these elements...in most western countries these issues are essential in each party's agenda.... What would make us so different from other traditional parties if we don't ?

concerning the clergy, of course they are the owners of the monastery, no one is denying this fact, what we are doing is only voicing our opinion hoping that they would change their minds ... We are just telling them that their decision is wrong and we hope that they listen......

Now by law they have the right to do as they like, no one is arguing about this fact but by principle i don't think that's the way things should be because i agree on what taifoon previously said that their properties belong to the communities they represent and if they manage these properties wrongly their respective communities have the right to protest and be influencial....but sadly this is not the case.....
Aslan, where does all this money, lands, monasteries come from ??? Isn't it from donations made by christian communities to the clergy ??? People made these donations, thinking that the clergy would manage them well but apparently this is not the case......

أكتفي بأن أطلب منك قراءة جميع إيجاباتي في هذا الموضوع، لقد أجبت عن هذه النقاط وبشكل واضح

if that's the case then don't vote fpm...because point 8 of our electoral program says otherwise

عذراً ولكنك اقتطعت الكلام الخطأ، أنا فقط أتكلمّ عن العلمانية! فما دخل البيئة فيما قلت؟

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

All of a a sudden you all became lovers of old "architecture".

Why all of a sudden? If you haven't noticed, we have always loved and still are loving old architecture, restored or falling apart. Look at saba7, Bkerki, Casino Du Liban and Nayla M3awwad, who love them more than us? Besides, when did you see us Hate churches, or other old creations?

Now what's the point of this found love? is it the church or the architecture?

Both, faith is a place before being a thought.

instead of writing petition, jam3ou ba3dkon and ditch money to buy it.
Unless it is declared a national parc or a unesco protected site. the owner of a property in a non communist country can sell it to whoever he wants, or else he will have to maintain it and that costs money. Just petitioning will not get him any money.

That's a good suggestion. Either this, and if doesn't work, my own banner suggestion, where clear language would effectively substitute empty pockets.

[>Watani<]

Originally Posted by taifoon

you do have a point, but we have already passed "the point of no return" in this, we're already coming .. against the saudi invasion, financial, political or ideological, people will stand firm, under the guise of a party or only driven by plain common sense and self preservation instinct. This has little to do with sectarianism or secularism. It's about halting and reversing the tide that hariri father started and siniora and son are sustaining. If this particular case is another manifestation of this, so be it, and i hope fpm will fight it as well, and on top of the roofs.

Now, if you ask: "what if that church was to be sold to a wealthy italian businessman? Would you mind it as much? ".. My answer is: "let's celebrate diversity, no problem", but that's only me.

However, again, it's not me who should be asked, but ashrafieh people. It is them who have regular rendez-vous with their deities in that place, not me, nor fpm as a party.

شكراً على هذا التوضيح. إن معظم الأجانب الذين اشتروا أراضي لبنانية هم من الجنسية السعودية
هل حان الوقت لنستيقظ؟

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by >Watani<

شكراً على هذا التوضيح. إن معظم الأجانب الذين اشتروا أراضي لبنانية هم من الجنسية السعودية
هل حان الوقت لنستيقظ؟

My pleasure and exactly so. The problem is the Saudification tide. They have been coming in financial waves since their little Trojan Hariri father was introduced on the scene. That is why FPM, from now on, should not hesitate a second to halt them. Ditch that bully Bull of "oh sister, beware of the sectarian tune when you try to preserve your land.. " Let's give them it straight: We don't approve of the Saudi financial invasion of the lands, we will stop it. W ahlan fiyoun for spending vacation and behave like normal tourists, bass don't ride our backs for having lebanese work overthere.

I hope once in parliamentary majority and in government FPM will make sure to lobby forward an amendment of the land ownership laws.

[December Rain]

Originally Posted by >Watani<

أكتفي بأن أطلب منك قراءة جميع إيجاباتي في هذا الموضوع، لقد أجبت عن هذه النقاط وبشكل واضح

Walla seems we got to a dead end here..... so i'll ask u to do the same

Originally Posted by >Watani<

عذراً ولكنك اقتطعت الكلام الخطأ، أنا فقط أتكلمّ عن العلمانية! فما دخل البيئة فيما قلت؟

And i'm being secular......

one of the major points i was trying to make in this thread is that if someone stands against destroying this monastery for the sake of a mall, his opinion should not be seen as a sectarian stance.....

A secular person or party can stand against destroying a monastery not because of its religious value......
i am against destroying this monastery for the sake of building a mall, not because it is a monastery (i.e: a christian entity) but because i am with preserving the identity and heritage of achrafiyyeh and that includes certain landmarks of the city, buildings and green spaces.......

u say what has the environement got to do with this, i say environment includes urban planning which is very important specially to preserve the little that we have left from Old Achrafiyyeh........

[ceaoun]

I am against the transaction.
You want to call me sectarian? be it.
I am tired of those callings everytime we discuss or defend a religious issue.
Secularism does not forbid us from defending religion issues.
Secularism should not be implemented when more than half of the people still think secularism is the same as atheism. The country needs few years of civil education on secularism and its application in a religious society then you can start implementing it slowly.
This transaction is most likely part of the Hariri plan to do what his father said would do.
The Haririnization and Saudinization of Lebanon is alive and kicking.
Who is ashamed to make it a political issue? it is a must.
can you imagine if the buyer was a shiite pro-Iran? hell would have opened and heaven would have fallen .
Make it an issue and connect it to Hariri and his puppets in the area is the best strategy.
It is a national treasure ; we must defend it using anything possible short of violence.
regards

[Ashrafieh_LF]

Ah ya 2iddisin into, you defenders of the Christians!! Bravo 3laykon! LOL! For those asking where Nayla and Nadim are, who said that a church is better business for Achrafieh than a mall? Stop jumping at every topic to turn it into a na3ra ta2ifiye! Go save the church in Jbeil that HA has taken over. Bidda7ko sirto!

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

Ah ya 2iddisin into, you defenders of the Christians!! Bravo 3laykon! LOL! For those asking where Nayla and Nadim are, who said that a church is better business for Achrafieh than a mall? Stop jumping at every topic to turn it into a na3ra ta2ifiye! Go save the church in Jbeil that HA has taken over. Bidda7ko sirto!

More attempts at sparking sectarian tension. Looks like the LF have trained you well.

[Tayyar Keserwen]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

Ah ya 2iddisin into, you defenders of the Christians!! Bravo 3laykon! LOL! For those asking where Nayla and Nadim are, who said that a church is better business for Achrafieh than a mall? Stop jumping at every topic to turn it into a na3ra ta2ifiye! Go save the church in Jbeil that HA has taken over. Bidda7ko sirto!

the last ppl that should be talkin about churches are the LF... go ask ur key ally Walid Beik who doesnt even remember ur leader's name (shou esmo hayda, lol) about Chouf churches, then come and participate in this conversation.

Until then, keep licking Adwan's way to parliament...