The Christians Since Sfeir Became the Patriarch

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Something similar to what Hezbollah did to impose its islamist agenda, given Lebanon's reality, while Hezbollah didn't have and still doesn't have the majority..

Impose secularism on the Christians? That is sectarian...

Either we impose it on both Muslims and Christians or we would be sectarian.

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[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

Impose secularism on the Christians? That is sectarian...

Either we impose on both Muslims and Christians or we would be sectarian.

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I just echoed the word that elias-aj used, obviously I am against any type of imposing.

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Which is based on patriotic activism during Syrian hegemony and not on Christian agendas that are pulling back.

I am not talking about FPM's popularity. I am talking about the rate of acceptance of secularism... thanks to FPM.

It has never before reached such heights neither among the Christians nor among the Muslims... thanks to FPM.

We did not yet reach the required critical mass but we're much closer to it than we used to be.

You could say this is a simple example and answer to your question on how FPM differs from the communist party in its achievements toward a secular state.

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[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Something similar to what Hezbollah did to impose its islamist agenda, given Lebanon's reality, while Hezbollah didn't have and still doesn't have the majority..

That islamist agenda is really debatable... HA has been changing from an islamist movement for rather a chiite - nationalist movement.

Anyway not the topic. HA imposed its whatever agenda within a single lebanese community. To impose secularism, we have to get the support of all the lebanese communities.

Given that FPM is supposed to be secular but that its popular support comes mainly - if not almost exclusively - from the christian community, FPM is facing a dilemma. Supporting christian rights and advocating a secular country.

To achieve our aim (secular state), we need political partners, strongly supported within the other communities who are for secularism. Otherwise, secularism will remain some kind of utopia.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

I am not talking about FPM's popularity. I am talking about the rate of acceptance of secularism... thanks to FPM.

It has never before reached such heights neither among the Christians nor among the Muslims... thanks to FPM. We did not yet the reach the required critical mass but we're much closer to it than we used to be.

You could say this is a simple example and answer to your question on how FPM differs from the communist party in its achievements toward a secular state.

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I couldn't but applaud an increase in secular thought among the population.

However, how are you measuring it and how do you attribute it to FPM?

[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

I just echoed the word that elias-aj used, obviously I am against any type of imposing.

Sorry I'm not "english educated". Promote ?

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

Given that FPM is supposed to be secular but that its popular support comes mainly - if not almost exclusively - from the christian community, FPM is facing a dilemma. Supporting christian rights and advocating a secular country.

There is no dilemma.

Supporting Christian "rights" is not contradictory to secularism. This is the wrong assumption many start from in judging FPM.

Supporting any "right" is supporting equality.

It's a "right" after all... which means it is something "due" to a person or citizen. Supporting any type of "right" is absolutely compatible with secularism.

When we see FPM advocating for Christian superiority then we could call it sectarian.

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[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

I couldn't but applaud an increase in secular thought among the population.

However, how are you measuring it and how do you attribute it to FPM?

No scientific measurement yet. It's a measurement coming from the guts and my own long experience.

Do "you" feel differently?

As for why I attribute it to FPM, it's because at least 50% of the Christians have consistently supported FPM while it's advocating secularism. A much lower percentage but still not a negligible chunk of the Muslim community started accepting it also because for the first time they saw a party they perceive as "Christian" that does not look at them as adversaries for the mere fact that they are of a different religion.

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[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

There is no dilemma.

Supporting Christian "rights" is not contradictory to secularism. This is the wrong assumption many start from in judging FPM.

Supporting any "right" is supporting equality.

It's a "right" after all... which means it is something "due" to a person or citizen. Supporting any type of "right" is absolutely compatible with secularism.

When we see FPM advocating for Christian superiority then we could call it sectarian.

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Amirkani,

It's about the overall image.

When we see the media focusing on FPM's lobbying of the Christian displaced, the Christian lands getting bought, the Christian representation in public service, the Christian votes in electoral laws, the Christian this and the Christian that... it does set a pattern.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

No scientific measurement yet. It's a measurement coming from the guts and my own long experience.

Do "you" feel differently?

I feel that many people are still fearsome of other sects, obviously not on an individual basis but on a community level.

They are mainly concerned that the other community will dominate them or take their rights away... typical story of Lebanon.

Originally Posted by Amirkani

As for why I attribute it to FPM, it's because at least 50% of the Christians have consistently supported FPM while it's advocating secularism. A much lower percentage but still not a negligible chunk of the Muslim community started accepting it also because for the first time they saw a party they perceive as "Christian" that does not look at them as adversaries for the mere fact that they are of a different religion.
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What you are referring to could also be described as coexistence. While coexistence is positive in principle, it does not necessarily translate into secularism.

1998 marked the year when a law proposal has been advanced for optional secular civil status, that IMO represents the biggest attempt towards secularism in recent Lebanese history.

I would like to see what could FPM do about reviving that and how it could lobby for the idea amongst the different communities.