The Christians Since Sfeir Became the Patriarch

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

What are those rights that a sect must have in order for Lebanon to be ungone?



Could you give a practical example away from the welfare state employment?

Granted, many positions are provided on a sectarian basis but what is the percentage of state employees vs total workforce + many leaders of the sectarian system provide wastas for citizens from different sects... it's about clientelism, however most sects if not all are practicing it, so where are the forgone rights?

Please state specific examples so we could discuss.




How much progress did the "hybrid" policy of FPM achieve so far?

There should be backup plans. If you think that many people think of sectarian rights, you should also be aware that many others do not.

What is the use of FPM's popularity if it is based on sectarian chest beating?

In what is FPM better or different from the communist party in terms of actual secular achievements? You are concerned of becoming like the communist party however your secular achievements are practically the same: very little if anything.

FPM is a theory and will remain a theory unless it starts working on the ground to change people's minds towards a secular state, if you think that is impossible within a sectarian system then you should not be a partisan in the first place... in other words, in what are you - a partisan - better than the average joe in terms of promoting secularism?

i'm afraid if you talk too much about secularism in the christian street you might end up having the same level of support as the communist party
if people want secular parties they can vote for SSNP and CP
they have a longer secular tradition and a clearer direction than FPM
christians need a CDU-like party - a center-right christian moderate democratic party that support their rights and have a less bloody/black history than LF or kataeb

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

i'm afraid if you talk too much about secularism in the christian street you might end up having the same level of support as the communist party
if people want secular parties they can vote for SSNP and CP
they have a longer secular tradition and a clearer direction than FPM
christians need a CDU-like party - a center-right christian moderate democratic party that support their rights and have a less bloody/black history than LF or kataeb

You shouldn't give up that easily.

For example, a large segment of the Shiites was leaning towards leftist/centrist ideologies before 1982, the communists and the real Amal (Moussa Sader) had far greater support than Islamist ideologies that only developed in the mid 80's.

It took time, effort and dedication for Hezbollah to build itself among its community. If FPM puts 50% of the same towards its secular agenda then it could do wonders.

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

What are those rights that a sect must have in order for Lebanon to be ungone?

Maybe the right of a sect to be (or become) secular? :)

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[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

FPMers should be happy that Christians don't have much power left.

After all, FPM is a secular party and does not seek the rights of sects rather those of citizens regardless of their sectarian affiliation.

The Christian demise is the best thing for secularism.. look at Turkey, it is void of Christians and is one of the strongest secular states in the region.

What kind of secularism are we talking about ? And what can FPM do to impose its secular agenda, given Lebanon's reality, while FPM hasn't the majority ?

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

Maybe the right of a sect to be (or become) secular? :)

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It's the right of a citizen

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

In what is FPM better or different from the communist party in terms of actual secular achievements?

Maybe in the magnitude of mass appeal of secularism reached and that had never before come even close to the critical mass required to effect the desired change?

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[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

What kind of secularism are we talking about ? And what can FPM do to impose its secular agenda, given Lebanon's reality, while FPM hasn't the majority ?

Something similar to what Hezbollah did to impose its islamist agenda, given Lebanon's reality, while Hezbollah didn't have and still doesn't have the majority..

[Amirkani]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

It's the right of a citizen

And a member of a sect "is" a citizen, no?

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[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

Maybe in the magnitude of mass appeal of secularism reached and that had never before come even close to the critical mass required to effect the desired change?

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Which is based on patriotic activism during Syrian hegemony and not on Christian agendas that are pulling back.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

And a member of a sect "is" a citizen, no?

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I wouldn't call him/her a citizen if he/she identifies his/her rights as sect.