The Christians Since Sfeir Became the Patriarch

[jamez29]

Originally Posted by Lebanesegirl

1-No no I urge u to go to the interior ministry website and check the results there! Count how many GMA and FPM got ALONE and then come and say case closed! If u believe that the Christians in 14 feb got the majority than I believe the case is closed in your mind!!

2- LOL who told u I care if Hariri visits syria? I'm just wondering why did u attack GMA when he visited syria? ma khalayto chi w ma 7kitou! will u do the same when u see tej rasak in syria? Or hariri ya7ouko lahou ma la ya7ouko li ghayrihi? So now u admit that the attacks on GMA's visit was only because u and ur masters acted like kids and u wanted to score points on GMA!!!

you are talking about things will happen in the future and you are giving your judgments for something never happened yet
1- SH Saad never visited syria
2- GMA visited syria
now give me your judgments

[GeorgeY]

Originally Posted by jamez29

you are talking about things will happen in the future and you are giving your judgments for something never happened yet
1- SH Saad never visited syria
2- GMA visited syria
now give me your judgments

taiib hang ur reply for a month or 2 max and then give us ur judgement

[coralie]

Originally Posted by needfortruth

The Christians in Lebanon since Sfeir has become the Patriarch are like a carriage with one horse pushing it forward and one pushing it backward.

Therefore, Needfortruth recommends that P. Sfeir and his minority Christian representatives since 1989 to sit back relax and let the winning Christian majority represent the community and take care of its affairs.

(PS – in regards to the many anticipated retarded counter arguments, and I know this may come as a surprise to many, the Armenians are Lebanese and Christians too).

just look at the situation of the christian community since his Holiness the seventy-sixth Patriarch of Antioch and the Whole Levant was elected no need to go deep in our analysis when we see that most of the emigration happened during his time with his total silent and blessing . he did not move a finguer to stop it . watching silently the emigration of more then one million christian is by itself a crime not to mention selling wakf marouni lands to saoudi investors !!!!!!

please those who will try to tell me chou tali3 bi ido yesekto cause obviously when he want to stop something he move his *** and open his mouth w biotla3 bi "ido" of course it seems to do so he need a $$$$$$ push and it has to be against the evil himself GMA and his movement !
the clegé of this country are a curse !

[Dry Ice]

FPMers should be happy that Christians don't have much power left.

After all, FPM is a secular party and does not seek the rights of sects rather those of citizens regardless of their sectarian affiliation.

The Christian demise is the best thing for secularism.. look at Turkey, it is void of Christians and is one of the strongest secular states in the region.

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

FPMers should be happy that Christians don't have much power left.

After all, FPM is a secular party and does not seek the rights of sects rather those of citizens regardless of their sectarian affiliation.

The Christian demise is the best thing for secularism.. look at Turkey, it is void of Christians and is one of the strongest secular states in the region.

in your dreams my friend
if this is what FPM is all about than
you give christian no choice than follow SG
I really feel ashamed what i voted in the last elections...
More than 80% of the lebanese people voted for secterian parties
GO PLAY WITH YOUR SECULAR JOKE SOMEWHERE ELSE
DON'T WATSE OUR TIME

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

in your dreams my friend
if this is what FPM is all about than
you give christian no choice than follow SG
I really feel ashamed what i voted in the last elections...
More than 80% of the lebanese people voted for secterian parties
GO PLAY WITH YOUR SECULAR JOKE SOMEWHERE ELSE
DON'T WATSE OUR TIME

My friend, are you saying that FPM shouldn't be a secular party?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

FPMers should be happy that Christians don't have much power left.

After all, FPM is a secular party and does not seek the rights of sects rather those of citizens regardless of their sectarian affiliation.

The Christian demise is the best thing for secularism.. look at Turkey, it is void of Christians and is one of the strongest secular states in the region.

FPM is not demanding for powerful rights for christian because it's a christian party, FPM is working to save the equality between the sects in Lebanon. Once a sect is not given its rights, Lebanon will be gone. Let's not fool ourselves, we can preach day and night about secularism, and we'll probably achieve a progress, only when all sects have equal rights.

You cannot ask for secularism if this sect or that one's rights are undertaken by another one. That's not possible. I can't convince a lebanese citizen to follow a secular system if that system won't give him his rights. If the state and the law deal with citizens as class A and class B ones, no one will accept it.

Many pro-fpmers were criticizing FPM and GMA's speech and accused it of being sectarian, but FPM is trying to build a nation, taking into consideration the lebanese system and society. FPM's policy and charter are clear, but no one can expect to achieve what's in it in an easy way. We cannot hide behind our fingers (like the communist party for example) and talk about secularism, while we forget that the system is malfunctioning.

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

My friend, are you saying that FPM shouldn't be a secular party?

FPM can't be a secular party and the elections proved it !!
what is FPM's support in sunni or druze street???
what is FPM's support in chi3a street if it was facing HA/AMAL???
NOTHING / ZERO / NULLE
what kind of secularism are you talking about ??
between orthodox and maronite? or between catholic and armenians??

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by John A

FPM is not demanding for powerful rights for christian because it's a christian party, FPM is working to save the equality between the sects in Lebanon. Once a sect is not given its rights, Lebanon will be gone. Let's not fool ourselves, we can preach day and night about secularism, and we'll probably achieve a progress, only when all sects have equal rights.

What are those rights that a sect must have in order for Lebanon to be ungone?

Originally Posted by John A

You cannot ask for secularism if this sect or that one's rights are undertaken by another one. That's not possible. I can't convince a lebanese citizen to follow a secular system if that system won't give him his rights. If the state and the law deal with citizens as class A and class B ones, no one will accept it.

Could you give a practical example away from the welfare state employment?

Granted, many positions are provided on a sectarian basis but what is the percentage of state employees vs total workforce + many leaders of the sectarian system provide wastas for citizens from different sects... it's about clientelism, however most sects if not all are practicing it, so where are the forgone rights?

Please state specific examples so we could discuss.

Originally Posted by John A

Many pro-fpmers were criticizing FPM and GMA's speech and accused it of being sectarian, but FPM is trying to build a nation, taking into consideration the lebanese system and society. FPM's policy and charter are clear, but no one can expect to achieve what's in it in an easy way. We cannot hide behind our fingers (like the communist party for example) and talk about secularism, while we forget that the system is malfunctioning.

How much progress did the "hybrid" policy of FPM achieve so far?

There should be backup plans. If you think that many people think of sectarian rights, you should also be aware that many others do not.

What is the use of FPM's popularity if it is based on sectarian chest beating?

In what is FPM better or different from the communist party in terms of actual secular achievements? You are concerned of becoming like the communist party however your secular achievements are practically the same: very little if anything.

FPM is a theory and will remain a theory unless it starts working on the ground to change people's minds towards a secular state, if you think that is impossible within a sectarian system then you should not be a partisan in the first place... in other words, in what are you - a partisan - better than the average joe in terms of promoting secularism?

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

FPM can't be a secular party and the elections proved it !!

Well they can be a secular party but they're not really thinking out of the box and they have no long term strategy.