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  (#21 (permalink)) Old
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Default 16th October 2008

From TIME

Iraq's Christians Flock to Lebanon
By Andrew Lee Butters Monday, Apr. 02, 2007





Its procession of frond-waving believers, the singing and chanting, and the proud parents snapping photos of their princess-garbed daughters made the Palm Sunday celebration in the Beirut suburb of al-Fanar look like any of the hundreds occurring all over Lebanon. But after the service, the conversations among parishioners revealed the special nature of this community. Many of them spoke Arabic with heavy Iraqi accents — al-Fanar has become a magnet for Christian refugees from Iraq.

It's hardly surprising that Iraq's Assyrian and Chaldean Christians would seek refuge from the chaos of post-Saddam Iraq in one of the most Christian countries in the Middle East — almost one third of Lebanon's population is Christian, and the country's presidency is reserved for them. "Iraqi Christians feel comfortable in a country where Christians have power," says Mark Samuel, the president of a Lebanese Assyrian political party. At the town's Assyrian Church of St. George, Iraqi refugees now make up almost one-third of the congregation. "It was bad in Iraq under the old regime," says James Isho, whose family fled Baghdad two years ago after the church next door to their house in the Dora district was bombed. "Now it's even worse."

Lebanon has a growing Iraqi refugee population, currently numbering between 20,000 and 40,000, according to the U.N. — a small fraction of the estimated 2 million Iraqis who have fled the spiraling violence in their country. But what makes Lebanon's Iraqi refugee intake unusual is that about 30% of them are Christian, although Christians constitute just about 3% of Iraq's population.

Many Christian refugees arrive from Syria on mountain paths used by smugglers, bringing with them little more than a suitcase or two and harrowing stories of rape, kidnapping and murder. Upon arriving, the first place many of them go is the Assyrian and Chaldean churches. "Every day five or six more families come here," says Bishop Michael Kisargi from the headquarters of the Chaldean Church in Lebanon. "Everyone can tell me a story about persecution by Muslims." One of the worst, he said, was from a family whose daughter had been raped 15 times by militia members.

As a small minority without a militia of their own, Iraqi Christians have been persecuted by both Shi'a and Sunni Muslim militias, and also by criminal gangs. "They think because we have liquor stores or live in nice neighborhoods we have more money," says Ghassan Mansou Chamoun, an Iraqi Christian from Mosul who arrived in Lebanon in December. The 36-year-old taxi driver left after receiving death threats from the Muslim family of one his passengers who died in an accident. "They wanted $50,000 or my head," he said.

Despite its own political troubles and last summer's war with Israel, Lebanon is peaceful in comparison to Iraq. But the Lebanese remain wary of accepting refugees, lest they upset the country's ever-fragile sectarian balance. Lebanon already houses 400,000 permanent Palestinian refugees, some of whom have lived here for almost 60 years without gaining citizenship. Tension over their presence helped trigger the civil war that ran from 1975 to 1990. "In general, every time you have new refugees, no matter what the number, it raises the Palestinian question," says Stephane Jaquemet, the U.N. High Commission for Refugees representative in Lebanon. Still, the U.N. has worked out an agreement with the Lebanese government whereby any Iraqi given official refugee status by the UNHCR can stay in the country for a renewable one-year period. (UNHCR now automatically grants refugee status to anyone from central and southern Iraq.) But most Iraqi refugees aren't legally allowed to work in Lebanon, and those who do usually take menial under-the-table jobs such as washing cars for $14 a day. A number of Iraqi women have ended up working as prostitutes.

The community relies largely on support from NGOs such as the Catholic charity Caritas, that has helped refugees of all religious backgrounds. But the churches say they are swamped. "I can't go on like this," said Bishop Kisargi, whose congregation has been supplying refugees with food and medicine and help finding homes. "We are a poor church and the situation is getting worse."

Kisargi is dismayed by his failure, during a trip to the U.S. last summer, to win support for Christian refugees from politicians and business leaders. The country he had once thought of as the apex of the civilized world is now ignoring its responsibilities, he said. "If you want to make a war, you have to protect the people."

Ironically, though, while Christians from Iraq are seeking refuge in Lebanon, many native Lebanese Christians are themselves trying to escape Lebanon's political and economic crisis. A recent poll of Lebanese Maronites, members of the country's largest Christian sect, found that half of them are considering leaving for a better life overseas. For Christians across the Middle East then, the onset of the Jewish Passover season is marked by a new exodus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ya Ahla fiyoun.. At least they didn't participate in the killing of lebanese.
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Default 16th October 2008

pffffft im ashamed to be part of middle east...
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Default 16th October 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by X View Post
You might want to check this thread: Batrak of what?
I red it X and i dont believe in the batrak from long time ago since i discovered that our clerics live in gold and drive fancy cars and date sexy russians i dont believe in him thats why i dont give a **** if he moves or not!!!
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Default 16th October 2008

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Originally Posted by mehdi soldier View Post
in addition to voicing support for the christians of iraq who are being persecuted in their houses,i want to also show solidarity to the 5 million oppressed shia muslims of saudi arabia.the saudi govt. is oppressing its own people that make up close to 20% of the population,same as the sunni percentage in iraq.and we all know the feeling of the minority sunni in iraq and how they ruled for years.in bahrain and kuwait the threat and oppression is the same story.
What about the 8 million in iran? they are facing oppression as well.

Quote:
i want to take this opportunity in this thread to remind others that there are many more oppressed peoples in the middle east.in iraq,even though with condemnation of it,there is occupation and wahhabi terrorists crossing the borders from saudi arabia and jordan in particular.the head of al qaeda in iraq that was killed,abu musa al zarqawi,is jordanian.
KSA and Jordan are victims themselves of al Qaeda and terrorist attacks. Every now and then we hear nests of Al Qaeda in KSA getting caught and thrown in jail.

And why are you excluding Iran from the Iraqi crisis. Iran is supporting shia militias who took part in the sectarian war iraq has been witnessing during the past five years.
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Default 16th October 2008

I would really like to be able to do something for the christians of Iraq but I feel I am already caused out. One more cause will tip me over.

Kell meen y'alle3 shawkou bi eedou.

While it might look bad for the christians in Iraq at the moment, In the long run it's better fo them to leave the country.
Look at my community, when we were in Lebanon, we were poor peasants,. Now that our neighbours kicked us out, we all migrated and prospered overseas(until the last financial crisis). The only regret we have now is that why they didnt do it a lot sooner.

On the wider scope what the lebanese need is one less cause to worry about. We already have too many and it's hard to keep up.
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Default 16th October 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin View Post
What about the 8 million in iran? they are facing oppression as well.



KSA and Jordan are victims themselves of al Qaeda and terrorist attacks. Every now and then we hear nests of Al Qaeda in KSA getting caught and thrown in jail.

And why are you excluding Iran from the Iraqi crisis. Iran is supporting shia militias who took part in the sectarian war iraq has been witnessing during the past five years.
Why are you turning this into an internal political affair we are not excluding anyone we are talking about a human cause here stop this **** about IRAN nad ksa and....
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Default 16th October 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by banadoura View Post
Dear members and visitors

The christian of Irak are being persecuted and murderred the Christians in Irak are being forced to leave theire homeland, i didnt see any thread on the forum mentioning this...
We cannot stay neutral to this, i call upon our MPs and upon GMA to make a clear and loud statement about this and to make clear steps to try and solve this matter, and to show our brothers theire that they are not alone!
Along with this we should on this forum make a move.
I live in France and i call RPL here in France to call for a gathering i hope theire are members on this forum in RPL france.

We cannot let this happen as if nothing was happening!! Our brothers need us theire let us show our support!!!

Please majke your proposals and lets acte!!!

it has been mentioned in the batrak topic...

i said that the syriac patriarch in syria mainly is taking care of them... other patriarchs are helping as well... most christians who come to syria are the poorest ones, as the wealthy fly to europe...

there is nothing lebanon can do... u cannot really host them... but u can support the efforts of syria who has a whole infrastructure to host over 1.5 million iraqis...
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Default 16th October 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by taifoon View Post
From TIME

Iraq's Christians Flock to Lebanon
By Andrew Lee Butters Monday, Apr. 02, 2007





Its procession of frond-waving believers, the singing and chanting, and the proud parents snapping photos of their princess-garbed daughters made the Palm Sunday celebration in the Beirut suburb of al-Fanar look like any of the hundreds occurring all over Lebanon. But after the service, the conversations among parishioners revealed the special nature of this community. Many of them spoke Arabic with heavy Iraqi accents — al-Fanar has become a magnet for Christian refugees from Iraq.

It's hardly surprising that Iraq's Assyrian and Chaldean Christians would seek refuge from the chaos of post-Saddam Iraq in one of the most Christian countries in the Middle East — almost one third of Lebanon's population is Christian, and the country's presidency is reserved for them. "Iraqi Christians feel comfortable in a country where Christians have power," says Mark Samuel, the president of a Lebanese Assyrian political party. At the town's Assyrian Church of St. George, Iraqi refugees now make up almost one-third of the congregation. "It was bad in Iraq under the old regime," says James Isho, whose family fled Baghdad two years ago after the church next door to their house in the Dora district was bombed. "Now it's even worse."

Lebanon has a growing Iraqi refugee population, currently numbering between 20,000 and 40,000, according to the U.N. — a small fraction of the estimated 2 million Iraqis who have fled the spiraling violence in their country. But what makes Lebanon's Iraqi refugee intake unusual is that about 30% of them are Christian, although Christians constitute just about 3% of Iraq's population.

Many Christian refugees arrive from Syria on mountain paths used by smugglers, bringing with them little more than a suitcase or two and harrowing stories of rape, kidnapping and murder. Upon arriving, the first place many of them go is the Assyrian and Chaldean churches. "Every day five or six more families come here," says Bishop Michael Kisargi from the headquarters of the Chaldean Church in Lebanon. "Everyone can tell me a story about persecution by Muslims." One of the worst, he said, was from a family whose daughter had been raped 15 times by militia members.

As a small minority without a militia of their own, Iraqi Christians have been persecuted by both Shi'a and Sunni Muslim militias, and also by criminal gangs. "They think because we have liquor stores or live in nice neighborhoods we have more money," says Ghassan Mansou Chamoun, an Iraqi Christian from Mosul who arrived in Lebanon in December. The 36-year-old taxi driver left after receiving death threats from the Muslim family of one his passengers who died in an accident. "They wanted $50,000 or my head," he said.

Despite its own political troubles and last summer's war with Israel, Lebanon is peaceful in comparison to Iraq. But the Lebanese remain wary of accepting refugees, lest they upset the country's ever-fragile sectarian balance. Lebanon already houses 400,000 permanent Palestinian refugees, some of whom have lived here for almost 60 years without gaining citizenship. Tension over their presence helped trigger the civil war that ran from 1975 to 1990. "In general, every time you have new refugees, no matter what the number, it raises the Palestinian question," says Stephane Jaquemet, the U.N. High Commission for Refugees representative in Lebanon. Still, the U.N. has worked out an agreement with the Lebanese government whereby any Iraqi given official refugee status by the UNHCR can stay in the country for a renewable one-year period. (UNHCR now automatically grants refugee status to anyone from central and southern Iraq.) But most Iraqi refugees aren't legally allowed to work in Lebanon, and those who do usually take menial under-the-table jobs such as washing cars for $14 a day. A number of Iraqi women have ended up working as prostitutes.

The community relies largely on support from NGOs such as the Catholic charity Caritas, that has helped refugees of all religious backgrounds. But the churches say they are swamped. "I can't go on like this," said Bishop Kisargi, whose congregation has been supplying refugees with food and medicine and help finding homes. "We are a poor church and the situation is getting worse."

Kisargi is dismayed by his failure, during a trip to the U.S. last summer, to win support for Christian refugees from politicians and business leaders. The country he had once thought of as the apex of the civilized world is now ignoring its responsibilities, he said. "If you want to make a war, you have to protect the people."

Ironically, though, while Christians from Iraq are seeking refuge in Lebanon, many native Lebanese Christians are themselves trying to escape Lebanon's political and economic crisis. A recent poll of Lebanese Maronites, members of the country's largest Christian sect, found that half of them are considering leaving for a better life overseas. For Christians across the Middle East then, the onset of the Jewish Passover season is marked by a new exodus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ya Ahla fiyoun.. At least they didn't participate in the killing of lebanese
.
Give them time.
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Default 16th October 2008

نديم الجميل استقبل وفدا من ابناء الطوائف المسيحية في العراق
مؤامرة تهجيرهم من وطنهم شبيهة بمؤامرة تهجير الارمن من ديارهم


وطنية
16/10/2008

استقبل نديم بشير الجميل عددا من ابناء الطوائف السريانية والاشورية والكلدانية الذين نقلوا اليه معاناة تهجير اقربائهم وانسبائهم في الموصل

وصرح على الأثر: "أمر غريب أن يعمد أهل الموصل الى تهجير مسيحيي الموصل من ديارهم، وهم من ابناء العراق منذ مئات السنين، وكأنها مؤامرة مدبرة من الخارج لافراغ العراق من مكوناته الاجتماعية ونسيجه الطائفي المميز

مسيحيو العراق ليسوا بدخلاء، بل عراقيون قبل أن يكونوا مسيحيين. فكيف تسكت الحكومة العراقية عن هذه المؤامرة، ولماذا لم يتحرك ابناء العراق الشرفاء لوقف هذا النزف البشري من بلادهم، ولماذا هذا الصمت العربي والدولي المطبق عن عملية التهجير هذه؟
المسيحيون موجدون في هذا الشرق منذ الفي عام، وهم مواطنون أصيلون وثابتون في هذا المشرق العربي. هم ليسوا اهل ذمة ولن يكونوا يوما. اعطوا لهذا الشرق وللعروبة بقدر ما اعطى غيرهم وحافظوا على تراثهم وتقاليدهم واحترامهم لمجتمعهم ولانتمائهم على مر العصور. فلماذا إذا هذا التمييز العنصري المفاجىء، ولماذا يتفجر اليوم؟

واضاف: "ندائي الى قداسة الحبر الاعظم وبطاركة الشرق ليدقوا ناقوس الخطر، وندائي أيضا لرؤساء وملوك الدول العربية ورؤساء وملوك العالم الحر للتحرك بسرعة لمنع تنفيذ هذه المؤامرة الخبيثة

فالمس بمسيحيي العراق هو مس بمسيحيي لبنان والشرق. ولا يمكن أن نقبل أن يحصل لمسيحيي العراق اليوم كما حصل لأخواننا الارمن في بداية القرن الماضي، بحيث تعرضوا لأشنع عملية قتل وتهجير وتشريد وحيث مآسيهم مستمرة حتى اليوم

سنقف الى جانب اخوتنا من الطوائف المسيحية المشرقية وامتدادهم اللبناني، الذين عبروا بألم عن قلقهم العميق لما يجري في وطنهم الام
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Default 16th October 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin View Post
What about the 8 million in iran? they are facing oppression as well.
bi alf kheir w 3afiyeh.iran is a country of more than 70m people,with many religions and sects.not like saudi arabia which recognizes itself as 100% muslims,yet 20% of that 100% are considered heretics and "rafida" and ofcourse "majous".

Quote:
KSA and Jordan are victims themselves of al Qaeda and terrorist attacks. Every now and then we hear nests of Al Qaeda in KSA getting caught and thrown in jail.
theyre the victims when bin laden wants to make a revolution to declare himself the king.they victimize others when they send bin laden's men and use them to oppress others and put them under their hegemony.they are victims ni shay w shay.
Quote:
And why are you excluding Iran from the Iraqi crisis. Iran is supporting shia militias who took part in the sectarian war iraq has been witnessing during the past five years.
iran never sent shia militia men to bomb sunni holy places,to bomb sunnis during their processions (if they have one),to provoke them with "hilal al sunni" slogan and try all their best for the other side to retaliate and escalate a civil war like the wahhabis did; and unfortunately many iraqi sunnis were fooled by the wahhabis.iran will not fold it arms again and watch more than 70% of the iraqi population be humiliated and torutured and oppressed by whoever and for whatever reason.iraq is a bastion for shia islam and every other iraqi citizen of other faiths would be free to live in peace and prosperity and as fellow citizens.am not iraqi and i dont have the right to speak in their name.i am only talking as a co-religionist and what we stand for and our principles toward the others in our beliefs.we dont symbolize extremism,oppression and parasitism.we represent mutual respect.
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