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  (#11 (permalink)) Old
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Default 1st July 2009

Let's say hypothetically the veto is granted to the President, and assuming he is able to hand-pick his ministers without interference from this side or that side.

What happens to remaining share amongst parties (or blocs) in government?
How will it be distributed in future?

Will the Opposition accept a drastically reduced share?

Will the majority demand half+1 of the govt? Will they accept less?

Can the president be trusted? Can his ministers be trusted? Will his ministers all vote the same way? What happens if one or more of his ministers switches sides? What control has he got over his ministers, what guarantees are in place?
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Default 1st July 2009

i've already spoken once on this subject, granting veto power constitutionally to a president, should not be via a fixed share percentage wise and through ministers.

it should be done with a clear constitutional text giving the president any one or any combination of the following.
a) the right to dissolve the council of ministers,
b) veto power in its own right over any ministerial decision. i.e. if he does not sign, the marsoum is not signed into law.
c) the right to push the abrogation of a "marsoum" to a higher majority or the parliament. i.e. if a marsoum needs 1/2+1 he can force it to need the 2/3+1 or the approval of the parliament.

providing veto power through a percentage share is not particularly sound and logical. all except one minister nominated by then president lahoud revolted against him. 2 out of 3 sleiman ministers are clearly on the other side. given an excellent president some time in the future, with less then excellent ministers he can be stripped of his rights.

so in my opinion the constitutional right to name a thrid+1 in the government is not very sound, all you need is buy 2 ministers off his share to revoke the entire arrangement.

now tactically, GMA is right on an issue.
Jumblat and hariri in no way want to see the position of the presidency reinforced by more prerogatives. on the other hand bkerki and the loyalist christians (whatever that may mean) would not mind replacing the opposition by the president's share (what a shameful way to describe politics).

by asking for what bkerki and its minions want, but by making it a definite constitutional clause he is tactically putting them in the corner.

although on a constitutional level i am fully convinced it is the wrong demand, put as political maneuvering goes, it is the right tactic. trading a momentary right for a certain political alliance for a permanent reinforcing of the presidency. this is something hariri could never accept.
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Default 1st July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
What your preaching is very demoralyzing, i wonder how you are conciliating your citizenship in USA with your lebanese one knowing that the first ennemy of the lebanese and oriental christianity is USA.
USA for the sake of it's dearest allies:Israel and KSA is persecuting the middel east christians since decades.

We are trying and will survive, and if there is a place where we should go it wiil be not the USA.
Yada yada yada...

First, it is not my fault that the facts of the screwed up political system in Lebanon is demoralizing. The Lebanese were given the chance to change and they opted not to, preferring instead to remain under the tutelage of Hariri's goons.

Second, like 300 million Americans, I am an American with roots from somewhere else. There are Lebanese, Italians, English, Scots, Irish, etc... After I was born, my father refused to register me as a Lebanese saying that since I am born with an American passport, there is no need for a Lebanese one. His attitude used to bother me in the past, but now I realized how wise he is and how I did not see it.

Third, do not mix the American people with American foreign policy. Not everybody I know agrees with our international politics, but come election time, we vote for who does the best job for America and how these candidates would make our lives better. Too bad the Lebanese cannot emulate such a standard.

Fourth, I did not ask you or anybody else to immigrate to the US. Canada btelba2 lal libneniyyi aktar since they like to do nothing and get money from the government for doing nothing.

So, Chaos, get off your high horse, and instead of nagging about what the Americans do and don't do in Lebanon, either cure the Lebanese voters from their Stockholm Syndrome, or do like 1,000,000 other Lebanese did, and try to get an immigration visa to a country that respects and looks after its citizens.

Either way Lebanon's fate is very dark because the Cazas where the opposition won this year might not be the case in 2013. Remember that 600,000 Palestinians will be granted Lebanese citizenship. That means Hariri will have at least 300,000 (Palestinians ≥ 18 years old) around Lebanon and can move their Nfouss wherever he needs to tilt the results of the future elections (no pun intended) in their favor. The Palestinians will not be settled in regions that are dominated by Shiites and Sunnis since these groups are already very homogenous and vote for a certain party, while the Christian population is fractured between two camps: Aouniyyi on one side and "3azrayel wala Aoun" on the other. This is where the Palestinian card is going to be played, and Zahle was just a preview of things to come.

Of course, we have idiots in March 14 who do not a give a rat’s a$$ about what is happening and will happen as long as Aoun does not win.

Therefore, yes, I see a very bleak future for Lebanon thus, though demoralizing, it is best for you and for the future of your children to live in a country where you would be appreciated and valued.

Best regards,
Amirkani min asl libnene
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Default 1st July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by LebanonUSA View Post

Either way Lebanon's fate is very dark because the Cazas where the opposition won this year might not be the case in 2013. Remember that 600,000 Palestinians will be granted Lebanese citizenship. That means Hariri will have at least 300,000 (Palestinians ≥ 18 years old) around Lebanon and can move their Nfouss wherever he needs to tilt the results of the future elections (no pun intended) in their favor. The Palestinians will not be settled in regions that are dominated by Shiites and Sunnis since these groups are already very homogenous and vote for a certain party, while the Christian population is fractured between two camps: Aouniyyi on one side and "3azrayel wala Aoun" on the other. This is where the Palestinian card is going to be played, and Zahle was just a preview of things to come.

Of course, we have idiots in March 14 who do not a give a rat’s a$$ about what is happening and will happen as long as Aoun does not win.

Therefore, yes, I see a very bleak future for Lebanon thus, though demoralizing, it is best for you and for the future of your children to live in a country where you would be appreciated and valued.

Best regards,
Amirkani min asl libnene
I don't like what you wrote, but I have to agree with you. It is the begining of the end for Lebanon as we once knew it.
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Default 1st July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youchka View Post
Those marionettes Nayla Tueini, Sami Gemayel, Nadim Gemayel, Pharaon, all LF MPs, Michel Murr......... tabaloulna dineyna about the protection fo the president's rights and position, about how the FPM was here to weaken that position, about how they want yraj3o salahiyet el raiss......

Today, GMA is putting them face to face with a challenge, maybe the last chance of actually doing what they, those liars were preaching.

GMA is asking them to actually give the guarantee of the government, the telt el damen to the president, in a way that will never be played with in the future, in a way that won't be affected by who the president is or who the opponent parties are, TO PUT THAT IN THE CONSTITUTION?

From where I stand, I do not see any better way actually to give back the little we could give to the president to have him have a real role in this country, I do not see a better way to show the will of actually WANTING to restore some of those rights, instead of just BABBLING about it.

What are those cowards waiting for to actually put pressure on their allies to get this for the president, so we could say, once in our lifetime and theirs that they made a good deed for their country and the people they represent?
What is the excuse for not doing it now before it is too late?

Where is the wise voice of the Batrak, that crippled minded old guy who never ever thought in a way to benefit Christians whether short or long run?

Where are those voices, the protectors of the Christian rights? Isn't that position, the presidency, the only thing left for those Christians in this country? Why not strengthen it by action and not by silly posters on the streets?

I need answers, I need to know WHY THIS ISSUE IS NOT RAISED BY EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN MP IN THIS PARLIAMENT, AND WHY ARE THOSE LOYALIST MPS SILENT ABOUT IT?
one word explain it all : MARIONETTE .

Marionette's one and only job is to be manipulated / used / directed....

are you realy expecting MARIONETTES to ask for anything ? can they even dare ask ?

now that elections are over they are jobless they will sit home waiting for orders and the people who voted for them can marinate in their S**** . idiocy mixed with blind hate does not pay !
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Default 1st July 2009

I personally believe that the Maronites do not deserve a constituionally empowered president. They should thank their lucky stars that they still have that seat, along with Army commander, and half the parliament (for Christians). If you ask me, they are already pampered more than they deserve.
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Default 1st July 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by LebanonUSA View Post
Canada btelba2 lal libneniyyi aktar since they like to do nothing and get money from the government for doing nothing.

Albeit off-topic, but what a hasty generalization. This reputation of Canada is long gone : services are being cut and taxes are increasing. The days when the Lebanese were "exploiting" the system are long gone. Actually, this attitude that the Lebanese had when most of them came in 90's made the government more aware and gave us a negative image. Now we are reaping collectively what some **** Lebanese sow. Add to that the last blunder when Canada brought back its expatriates (I'm not talking about Lebanese-Canadians going to Lebanon for the summer) by boats and paid them each some welfare when the majority of these people went back 2 weeks after that to Lebanon. Easy money doesn't exist anywhere and this idea of Canada being a bakra haloub offends me. If you wish to take it extensively, please open a thread about it and I will happy to continue this interaction with whomever wishes to. Regards
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Default 1st July 2009

where is michel murr and his 10+10+10 solution? he always blamed GMA for not accepting it before
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Default 1st July 2009

I think we should actually give the president 5 or above. Lets see what he can do or is he all talk?
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Default 1st July 2009

Would you please tell me, What GMA stand for?
Thank you in advance
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