In case of a referendum, would you agree to give the refugees residence permits?

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by LiNk

I was referring to European countries.

We're speaking about reform right ? If so, many things need to be taking place also.

If we're talking about giving them working permits like any other foreigner, there should be a law that regulates the percentage of foreign workers, taking into consideration the needs of our economy, and of course, it's capacities to welcome this HUGE mass of workers. Which I doubt it can.

Second, our laws will surely not remain the same for another 50 years, if reform takes place, it will surely affect the naturalization process. No sane person can refuse citizenship for immigrants of third or fourth generation.

Originally Posted by YOSS

I don't think we currently have "residence permits" for anyone do we? maybe just foreign spouses? We have work permits for those workers some speak of.

And yes it's difficult to naturalize into Lebanese under current laws.

So the residence permits in question here are permanent resident permits, hence the previous mention of right to buy property, own land, work, etc. contrary to 'work permits' and their limitations.

So it's an 'a la green card' option... with a possibility to offering the newborns citizenship from there onwards.

Guys, Lebanon decides its own laws. If we don't want to give people the Lebanese nationality, we just don't! We do not have to take European-style reforms regarding naturalization into account, nor do we have to follow the American Green Card model... WE decide how it's gonna be.

And knowing our political system, and our instinctive paranoia of such issues, you can be assured that no one's gonna get the nationality under these criteria! Especially since for each Muslim, there's gotta be a Christian naturalized, try to find a consensus where naturalizations are possible!

Secondly, Link, if we give work permits to foreign workers (which we already do), they'll be paying 1/taxes and 2/work permit fees. That's more money for 1/the repayment of our huge debt, and 2/a social infrastructure for the Lebanese that need it.

[Anny]

I belive they should never be lebanese citizens and say never. They caused too much trouble in the past with their PLO and we do not want more Sunnies than others in Lebanon. They make too much kids and that will be a problem for Lebanese christians and Shiite in the futur if Sunnies become more than them, we will be another Egypt or Saudi. And who wants that in Lebanon, not me.

They should go to Western countries and live there with their citizenships because western countries are the one who kicked them out from Palestine in the first place. So they should support their cause after all those 61 years of war.

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Anny

I belive they should never be lebanese citizens and say never. They caused too much trouble in the past with their PLO and we do not want more Sunnies than others in Lebanon. They make too much kids and that will be a problem for Lebanese christians and Shiite in the futur if Sunnies become more than them, we will be another Egypt or Saudi. And who wants that in Lebanon, not me.

They should go to Western countries and live there with their citizenships because western countries are the one who kicked them out from Palestine in the first place. So they should support their cause after all those 61 years of war.

Sorry Anny, but Off Topic!

We're not discussing giving the Lebanese citizenship to the Palestinians, but residence permits... Check out my previous post!

Why can't anyone stick to the subject? The topic is about residence permits, yet the majority in here are talking about naturalization!

[vicking]

Originally Posted by Observer

Since the Lfer hate the guts of the palestinians and since the LFer hate to be in the same place with palestinians and since the LF can not prevent anything and nobody gives a sh** about their demands, I suggest to exchange the palestinians with LF. i.e Palestinians in LFer out. I am a fierce opponent to naturalization whereas this issue will lead to them not going back to palestine and regain their stolen land but I am ready to accept naturalization if and only if in exchange for LFers leaving this country.

My dear Observer, you are full of hate and revenge toward the LF. I am far from beiing an LFer and I know how much they ruinned the country.. but at the end of the day, AMAL or Mourabitoun were not better.
The worst were the PLO..; we will never forget these dark days.

Anyway my advice to you is to beleive in peace in this country and beleive in its unity. If you dont beleive in ONE Lebanon then please let's partition - everyone would be happy, especially the LFers.

LFer are Lebanese and our brothers like all Lebanese.

Palestinian are foreigners who cost us a civil war. I want them out of this country and ready to help them return to their places. Now if they want to move somewhere else (USA, Iran, Australia, etc.) then it is up to THEM to decide, not you or me.

[Anny]

Originally Posted by dodzi

Sorry Anny, but Off Topic!

We're not discussing giving the Lebanese citizenship to the Palestinians, but residence permits... Check out my previous post!

Why can't anyone stick to the subject? The topic is about residence permits, yet the majority in here are talking about naturalization!

Maybe I am a little bit off the topic but I still belive that no one should have reisdence permit because they will take Lebanese people's opening jobs and work instead of Lebanese citizens while Lebanese citizens are leaving the country because they are out of jobs from their own country. So I am totally against residence permits.

In fact, with time, if they are not aloud to have these permits, they will obviously be discouraged to stay in Leb and leave the country to go somewhere else and Lebanese citizens living outside will have more opportunities to come back to Lebanon like myself.

Why should we help strangers before helping our own population?

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Anny

Maybe I am a little bit off the topic but I still belive that no one should have reisdence permit because they will take Lebanese people's opening jobs and work instead of Lebanese citizens while Lebanese citizens are leaving the country because they are out of jobs from their own country. So I am totally against residence permits.

In fact, with time, if they are not aloud to have these permits, they will obviously be discouraged to stay in Leb and leave the country to go somewhere else and Lebanese citizens living outside will have more opportunities to come back to Lebanon like myself.

Why should we help strangers before helping our own population?

I totally agree with you on that.

But I think that it can have a positive effect. As I said in a previous post, those people will have to pay for both the residence permits AND the work permits. Plus, they'll be paying taxes. That will help both our budget and the social security system in Lebanon!

Also, we must not make discrimination between foreigners. There are many Syrians, Egyptians, French, Sri Lankans, Philippinas, etc. in our country. These people have homes where they can go back anytime they want. Palestinians don't!

Also, other laws should be enhanced, like minimum wages, tax system etc., so that the Lebanese can actually profit from all that!

[Anny]

Originally Posted by dodzi

I totally agree with you on that.

But I think that it can have a positive effect. As I said in a previous post, those people will have to pay for both the residence permits AND the work permits. Plus, they'll be paying taxes. That will help both our budget and the social security system in Lebanon!

Also, we must not make discrimination between foreigners. There are many Syrians, Egyptians, French, Sri Lankans, Philippinas, etc. in our country. These people have homes where they can go back anytime they want. Palestinians don't!

Also, other laws should be enhanced, like minimum wages, tax system etc., so that the Lebanese can actually profit from all that!

Your idea is not too bad at all but we have to secure the work system first.

Lets put a law that each company has to take a lebanese citizen candidate at first, if they dont have lebanese citizens that have applied at the jobs in the first place, then they can take foreigners and give them a residence permits and if those people make any mistakes in Lebanon, they should be kicked out from it. We have to protect our citizens rights first and making Lebanese citizens priorities in their demands before any foreigners.

[vicking]

I am totally against. Once they start to work, then they will buy houses, send their children to school, go dine and dance in pubs... what the hell would be their motivation for return ?
With my respect for Palestine, Lebanon is still a much more sexy country than Gaza..

Giving permits will drive for giving citizenships. Never ever

[Anny]

Originally Posted by vicking

I am totally against. Once they start to work, then they will buy houses, send their children to school, go dine and dance in pubs... what the hell would be their motivation for return ?
With my respect for Palestine, Lebanon is still a much more sexy country than Gaza..

Giving permits will drive for giving citizenships. Never ever

I totaly agree with you, after a while, they will be so much more than us that they might want to start a war against us to have their Lebanese citizenship and muslims racist countries like Saudi arabia and Egypt and even Israel will want them to settle down in Lebanon to make it another Sunni country, so they will help them against the current Lebanese people, what would we do then, hun?

And please do not delete this reply, I am sick of you deleting replies when actually it has to do so much with the topic and I havent hurt anyone's feeling here.

Thank you,

[vicking]

Everyone evil could benefi from Palestinian having a residence permit or citizenship. By order :
1/ Israel : Now Israel will be releived by this problem. Finally they have a life in Lebanon and with time their motivation to return will no longer exist.

2/ Saudi Arabia : Sunni presence is re-enforcing

3/ USA/Europe : In the long run, outnumbered Christian, will be pushed to leave the country like in ALL other Arab countries. Peace with Israel will be easier, each one having his land

Biggest loosers will be the Christian then the Shiaa.
Our fathers fought in 1975 against this scheme, we will do it again today and our children again tomorrow. Lebanon is our second religion.