What the hell is that? and Proppeled airplane in 2009?
As I said above.. it has its role that's why it is a propelled one even in 2009..
I would have preferred a Predator UAV, because the only main difference is that it is unmanned. It still got the same camera and hellfire missiles.
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what can it perform with a small obsolete Sam-7 or a handheld stinger it will go down easily. and these weapons are found with the internal militias we have to be dealing with.
This is why it has missile warning sensors along to chaff and flare dispensers.
No wonder this is not what the LAF only wants, but the LAF found good potential use in this, else it didn't accept it. So we have to accept that this is not everything, but also this is not nothing, it has very good use (Advanced surveillance camera + Hellfire).
As for the Cessna 208B Caravan, it is not exactly the photo you have posted.
What are the differences? Same PT6 engine, same service ceiling, same speeds, still unpressurized, and still fixed gear. The one the army got has some gadgets and minor changes, nothing else. Nothing worthy of mentioning. It has some basic factory differences, added to that the army upgrades.
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Originally Posted by zaher_leb
First, we need to train a new generation of fixed wing jet pilots, so far the majority are helicopter pilots. Some pilots followed some courses in some Arab countries, but this is not enough. This could be good for a basic training for fixed wing aircraft. The next step is to acquire the BAE Hawk advanced jet trainers, which UAE promised to provide Lebanon with. Until then, the LAF is restoring some Fouga Magister jet trainers [1], in order to train new pilots on jets instead of relying on the Hawker Hunters..
The caravan is not a training aircraft. You don't train ab-initio pilots on turbine engines. It's the only one that we have, and you think that suits an ab-initio pilot scheme? You train ab-initio pilots on single pistons until they at least have a few hours under their belt, then you can put them on a turbine. Get the bulldogs up and running, they are built to be trainers, the caravan isn't. If they want to train their pilots to fly fixed wing, walk to the aero club and get a 172, better yet, buy a few Zlins from eastern Europe. Cheap, reliable, built to be trainers, and aerobatic, that's what you train air force pilot ab initio with, not a 10 seater turbine plane that goes no more than 140kts. To suggest that having 1 caravan in an air force fleet, and to use that as a training bird is coming from someone outside the aviation industry, and with all due respect, having no idea what they are talking about.
Having everyone and their uncle promissing us is getting too old. A caravan costs 1mil, you can finance a brand new one with 10% down. So mana 3eyzin el amerken. That's why I said about the jets, I won't believe it until they're sitting at our ramps, in Lebanese Air Force colours.
Fuga magistere being an antique now, is useless for an army to train pilots on in 2009. All of it's systems are outdated and not used in the new age fighter jets. It's like training someone to ride a horse, in preperation for their full time job of riding a ducati. Sure it's still a jet, but it's an old jet, you're only confusing the poor students, nevermind the costs associated with flying an antique as a training bird.
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Originally Posted by zaher_leb
However, the main role, and the most important one, of this Cessna, is its surveillance capabilities. It has an MX 15 camera on its belly, capable of seeing day/night, and for long ranges. The Cessna is also equipped with 2 Hellfire missiles, which rely on the camera.
Moreover, it is equipped with missile warning sensors, and chaff and flare dispensers.
Here, you bring on a good point. Surveillance. Not being into aviation, just try to think of what altitude would give better results for that job, being low, or being high? Personally, I prefer being high, having a good camera, and taking 1 snapshot which covers all of our small country, and zooming in on it later while sitting on a desk and sipping some coffee. Notice what our southern neighbours do? They fly at 60,000ft, above the airliners, above all the trafic, no one can touch them, no one can hear them, and they snap pictures all day.
This bird's ceiling is what? 15,000? That's how far it can go, but not operationaly. over 10,000 feet for 30 min, and that's it for the crew, unless you want a repeat of the helios 737 crash into the mountains of Athens. Loss of oxygen to the brain, hypoxic hypoxia. So unless the pilot and other crew members onboard are wearing oxygen masks, that's all it's going to. Now at 10,000 feet, with it's propeller driven engine, and dark colour, everyone will see it, and hear it. Those are two major negative points to it's serveillance issue that you brought up. those two points alone will get it shot down in a hurry. Even to cross our mountain ridges will be an event. Loaded, on one of our hot summer days, I bet you one of these unexperienced pilots will CFIT it into the mountains (Controlled Flight Into Terrain). They will have to work their ways around the mountain pass. Laken that being said, it cannot surveille the mountains, because it would barely be 1,000 ft AGL (above ground level), ye3ne no need for a gun, just throw stones at it till you make it go away, or use a slingshot to annoy the pilot, and he'll leave. Ba3den at 1,000ft the pictures that you're taken are not very wide, ye3ne he's taking a shot of your neighbourhood at best.
Want me to go on as to why it's not good for the missions you assigned it? Flares for what? Planes that use those can maneuver away from the incoming missle, this one barely moves at 140kts.
The camera takes pictures for long areas? From 10,000ft, coupled with our terrain, you can pretty much say this camera is useless when used in a caravan in Lebanese topography.
So being low, loud, and slow, are in no way or shape good qualities for a surveillance aircraft. Everyone on the ground will spot it, and like I said, it can be brought down in a hurry. The PSP taba3 junblatt have brought down an air force jet during our war, and that's the PSP and a jet (i forgot if it was a mirage or a hunter), and now you're telling me a cessna who's cruising speed is the same speed as the one that the jet touches the ground with, even slower, will not be brought down?
It's nice having a new toy, we're all hungry for it, but we're just setting up poor souls to be in a dangerous situation. It's not a fighter jet, it's not a surveillance airplane, and it certainly is not a training plane. We need people in the aviation industry calling the shots, not someone thinking this is a game, and a plane is a plane. Every plane is built for a purpose. This one is built to carry lots of people, go slow, and be efficiant. African safaris for example. It goes slow, so people can enjoy the view form the windows, it lands on any surface, short distance, and voila. Or the Canadian bush, flying natives, they're in no rush to get to the reserve, it carries all of their ****, and it's efficient with having a single engine prop, and landing and taking off from short, unprepared strips.
This offer isn't new, it has been there since the beginning of July ; I'm not sure if what the L’Orient-Le Jour is mentioning is the final decision, because this offer was still being studied.
These OV-10 Broncos will be strictly for surveillance and observation. They will not be armed, and their armament systems will be removed (Found out that later, at first we though they will be armed). This is the not the best deal we could have because for the tasks assigned/expected we could have better been offered larger UAVs than the currently available RQ-11 Raven.
These 10 OV-10 will cost 13 millions USD, they will come in addition to a non-functional one.
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Last edited by >Watani<; 5th September 2009 at 02:36 AM..
Reason: Rule#1
#DXB09: Lebanon Air Force re-invents UH-1 Huey as bomber
By
Stephen Trimble
DUBAI -- Lebanon's air force officials on Saturday revealed making a desperate modification to a Bell Helicopter UH-1 Huey to drop bombs amidst a bloody war against a barricaded terrorist haven in 2007.
The Lebanese military resorted to the "Huey bomber" idea after a failed attempt to restore Hawker Hunter jets to flying status. Lebanon's Hunters have been parked for more than 20 years since being crippled during Lebanon's long civil war ending in 1990.
In May, 2007, fighting erupted between Lebanese troops and Fatah al-Islam militants barricaded inside Naher Al Bared, a populous Palestinian refugee camp. The siege dragged on for three months, killing 130 people and wounding more than 1,500.
By August, the terrorist group had been isolated into a small area of the camp measuring 250m long by 200m wide, a Lebanese officer identified only as Lt Col Yassine told the Dubai International Air Chiefs conference.
At that time, Lebanon's post-civil war air force was limited to just four Robinson R-44 helicopter trainers, a handful of UH-1s and Aerospatiale Gazelle helicopters recently donated by the United Arab Emirates.
Lacking proper bomb-dropping aircraft, Lebanese officers hatched a plan to modify the Huey with a bomb release system. The modifications fitted a mix of bombs, ranging from 50kg to 400kg. The air force also calculated the precise envelope required to hit targets within a minimum range for accuracy.
The release envelope for the UH-1 bomber release was extremely tight. The pilot had to fly at precisely 90kts forward air speed and above 500m (1,500ft), Yassine said. Even a slight deviation from the speed and altitude parameters could throw off accuracy by several meters, he added.
In one month, Lebanese UH-1s performed 98 bombing sorties against the Fatah al-Islam haven inside the camp. The bombing opened up paths through the rubble of the camp for Lebanese infantry and armoured units to advance, Yassine said. By 2 September, fighting inside the camp had ceased, as the last remnants of Fatah al-Islam had been killed or surrendered.
2nd July 2009
