Another quadruple alliance??!!

[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

I'll honestly tell you what impression readers have in general when reading most replies:

(1) FPM is worried about a unity between Muslim
which can be understood that FPM's aim was never to unite the Muslim in this country, but rather divide them (e.g. through the Memorandum). This also puts doubt about FPM's "patriotic" and "national" goals.

(2) FPM turned out to be Christians having fear and still living in the era of "Kataeb's/LF's Christian radicalism". With the consequence that FPMers are shouting loud toward a Christian unity.

My comment:
Deceiving

I hope no one will try to justify and twist the above mentioned facts. And I hope that no one will try to attack my person because it will only prove me more right than ever. And it is no argument attacking Jumblatt's person, because whether we like it or not he is representative of a large Lebanese community just as General Aoun or any other is. Let us try to deal with the issue as if any X person is proposing it.

I seriously hope that Lebanese can one day overcome the hate they have against each others and that they would unite for once beyond personal interest and for the sake of this country. Our country is about to be completely abolished (extreme poverty, high rate of immigration, high rate of criminality) because of our hate.

If you really want to improve this country, you should not fear Muslim unity but welcome it, because a Christian unity would have not been perceived as a danger for the Muslim community. And finally we should unite all religions in this country and set the fundamentals for a secular system allocating offices according to qualification.

If I were a politician I would ask Jumblatt right now to act against the economical catastrophe by diverse projects e.g. reopening Lebanon's pipelines as the main distributor of oil for the world (through backing of the Muslim oil states); ensuring borders with Syria in order to maintain Lebanon's sovereignty. Now FPM can use this issue to put highest demands for this unity. I would lead Jumblatt into proving that this Muslim unity would be out of benefit for the Lebanese citizen (تصب في مصلحة المواطن اللبناني) and not only sectarian talks. I would be active and ask for a Lebanese unity, not only a Muslim one (which however is very positive and welcome). I would ask for projects for this country beyond religious issues without undermining this step. Any positive reactions from now on would refavor FPM and each negative reaction from FPM damages FPM's image and its credibility on a "national" level.

Joumana, if I may, the only real impression I got, when I speak with any lebanese - from whatever sect - is the very deep lack of confidence between the lebanese communities and even between the members of a same lebanese community.

Lebanese don't trust each other, that's a fact and that's why here many people, including me probably and unconsciously, are afraid of any future quad' alliance. Because we don't see it like it can be imagined, a positive unity between lebanese sects that may help restoring unity between all the lebanese sects. We rather see it as an alliance between X and Y, against Z.

We see it as a potential threat which results will be to corner / sideline a whole lebanese community.

That's Lebanon. That's the product of confessionalism. That's the civil war legacy.

We have to understand that as long as a filthy snake like Jumblatt represents the huge majority of a community, as long as we have people like Geagea and others among those who are governing us and as long as we have people who support them, we will never be able to get over the civil war.

Those people are preventing us from working on our memory in order to be able to forgive ourselves and to build our lebanese nation.

But once again here, I don't see anything else but some another cheap and typical lebanese political show. And I don't see what kind of positive outcomes would result from FPM shaking hands with Jumblatt and / or applauding a rapprochement between this guy and HA / AMAL or whoever. Yeah, this would give the journalists the chance to write nice articles and / or take nice pics. But our common problems will remain unsolved and even worse, unadressed.

We need something else than those superficial and totally useless "rapprochements". But that's the people's call as those leaders through their personnalities and their behaviour are nothing but the product of the lebanese people and the reflection of the lebanese's minds.

[Revolution1989]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

I'll honestly tell you what impression readers have in general when reading most replies:

(1) FPM is worried about a unity between Muslim
which can be understood that FPM's aim was never to unite the Muslim in this country, but rather divide them (e.g. through the Memorandum). This also puts doubt about FPM's "patriotic" and "national" goals.

(2) FPM turned out to be Christians having fear and still living in the era of "Kataeb's/LF's Christian radicalism". With the consequence that FPMers are shouting loud toward a Christian unity.

My comment:
Deceiving

I hope no one will try to justify and twist the above mentioned facts. And I hope that no one will try to attack my person because it will only prove me more right than ever. And it is no argument attacking Jumblatt's person, because whether we like it or not he is representative of a large Lebanese community just as General Aoun or any other is. Let us try to deal with the issue as if any X person is proposing it.

I seriously hope that Lebanese can one day overcome the hate they have against each others and that they would unite for once beyond personal interest and for the sake of this country. Our country is about to be completely abolished (extreme poverty, high rate of immigration, high rate of criminality) because of our hate.

If you really want to improve this country, you should not fear Muslim unity but welcome it, because a Christian unity would have not been perceived as a danger for the Muslim community. And finally we should unite all religions in this country and set the fundamentals for a secular system allocating offices according to qualification.

If I were a politician I would ask Jumblatt right now to act against the economical catastrophe by diverse projects e.g. reopening Lebanon's pipelines as the main distributor of oil for the world (through backing of the Muslim oil states); ensuring borders with Syria in order to maintain Lebanon's sovereignty. Now FPM can use this issue to put highest demands for this unity. I would lead Jumblatt into proving that this Muslim unity would be out of benefit for the Lebanese citizen (تصب في مصلحة المواطن اللبناني) and not only sectarian talks. I would be active and ask for a Lebanese unity, not only a Muslim one (which however is very positive and welcome). I would ask for projects for this country beyond religious issues without undermining this step. Any positive reactions from now on would refavor FPM and each negative reaction from FPM damages FPM's image and its credibility on a "national" level.

I tend to agree with your post... My perception is that FPM's reaction should be neutral to positive, be it with the "cynical" politician view or the ideallistic patriotic view

1) Cynical politician: this is positive because it creates turmoil in my adversaries' coalition and should embarrass some of my political oponents (remember, Joumblatt's latest position follows a trend of him wanting to get closer to HA/Amal, but also, further away from SG, Kataeb, etc. through his comments about jins 3atel, Loubnan aoualan, in3izalie, etc.)... Neutral because, as in the elections, we know that Joumblat knows exactely how not to take it too far

2) Idealistic patriot: This is positive because will relieve the tension in the mountain, in Beirut, hopefully would lead to further openess and collaboration. Neutral because is ths this "collaboration" "real" and does it come at the expense of others (i.e. communities)... Again this follows a trend (see above), a previous experience (2005 election) and is done "outside" of any other community and positionned as such. However, to your point, there have been talks about "christian unity" for years now, and no one said it was a bad thing

[Joumana Gebara]

I like it when some people live in dreamland.

ne7na be lebnan ma kharabna ella AL FAIRY TALES wa FEEL GOOD STORIES.

IN lebanon the story of the frog & princess is quiet popular.here's the Lebanese version.

THE FROG ASKED THE PRINCESS TO KISS IT AND SHE WILL TURN INTO A BEAUTIFUL, RICH, WELL EDUCATED ,HANDSOME ,POWERFUL, POPULAR, PRINCE THAT WILL MARRY HER.
SHE DID AND THE PRINCESS TURNED INTO A FROG......

frog: wello
princess: the idiots in the jeness 3atel

Are some insinuating that Lebanese should always kill each others as soon as two unite?

Thank God those are not the decision makers in the FPM leadership.
I do remember that we all "had a dream" as patriots and nationalists when FPM initiated at Kasr elcha3b, most writers here were not born or were to young to read.
But I am not surprised, about many silly reactions, each community has the wise, the strong, the weak, the abnormal...And abnormality moves from generation to generation.

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by nuknuk

Zouxi, you should be happy about what Jumblatt is calling for unless you want to see more fighting and bloodshed amongst the Lebanese.

The country won't be stable unless Shi'ites, Sunnis, and Druze are on good terms.

Pinnacle of hypocrisy. The 2009 elections is only a month old.

[Joumana Gebara]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

Joumana, if I may, the only real impression I got, when I speak with any lebanese - from whatever sect - is the very deep lack of confidence between the lebanese communities and even between the members of a same lebanese community.

Can't agree more.

Lebanese don't trust each other, that's a fact and that's why here many people, including me probably and unconsciously, are afraid of any future quad' alliance. Because we don't see it like it can be imagined, a positive unity between lebanese sects that may help restoring unity between all the lebanese sects. We rather see it as an alliance between X and Y, against Z.

Can't agree more, you speak chapters of Lebanon's psychological status.

We see it as a potential threat which results will be to corner / sideline a whole lebanese community.

As a result of fear... which each has to overcome... and who told you that I did not live this fear years ago, till I overcame it and developed? Each single Lebanese lived/lives this fear... but it is time to overcome this fear and look forward..

That's Lebanon. That's the product of confessionalism. That's the civil war legacy.

Can't agree more

We have to understand that as long as a filthy snake like Jumblatt represents the huge majority of a community, as long as we have people like Geagea and others among those who are governing us and as long as we have people who support them, we will never be able to get over the civil war.

Problem is that the other side would rephrase you stating the oppisiont's leaders name. either we all have to live with the fact and build this country or keep destroying each others till we are all eliminated.

Those people are preventing us from working on our memory in order to be able to forgive ourselves and to build our lebanese nation.

The day Lebanese focus on their country Lebanon will resurect, I remember FPM years ago was different... they were "the dream"... now they are part of the cruel dirty reality.. Allow me to be honest..

But once again here, I don't see anything else but some another cheap and typical lebanese political show. And I don't see what kind of positive outcomes would result from FPM shaking hands with Jumblatt and / or applauding a rapprochement between this guy and HA / AMAL or whoever. Yeah, this would give the journalists the chance to write nice articles and / or take nice pics. But our common problems will remain unsolved and even worse, unadressed.

You may be completely right, but let us give it the chance of doubt

We need something else than those superficial and totally useless "rapprochements". But that's the people's call as those leaders through their personnalities and their behaviour are nothing but the product of the lebanese people and the reflection of the lebanese's minds.

Can't agree more, but so fa any step done by Aoun was negatively judged, that's the problem of the "bad" side, but I still want to believe in "the good" FPM has deeply rooted in it.

[Joumana Gebara]

Originally Posted by Revolution1989

I tend to agree with your post... My perception is that FPM's reaction should be neutral to positive, be it with the "cynical" politician view or the ideallistic patriotic view

1) Cynical politician: this is positive because it creates turmoil in my adversaries' coalition and should embarrass some of my political oponents (remember, Joumblatt's latest position follows a trend of him wanting to get closer to HA/Amal, but also, further away from SG, Kataeb, etc. through his comments about jins 3atel, Loubnan aoualan, in3izalie, etc.)... Neutral because, as in the elections, we know that Joumblat knows exactely how not to take it too far

2) Idealistic patriot: This is positive because will relieve the tension in the mountain, in Beirut, hopefully would lead to further openess and collaboration. Neutral because is ths this "collaboration" "real" and does it come at the expense of others (i.e. communities)... Again this follows a trend (see above), a previous experience (2005 election) and is done "outside" of any other community and positionned as such. However, to your point, there have been talks about "christian unity" for years now, and no one said it was a bad thing

You read my mind Revolution and were better in expressing my views, thank you. Such a visionary person with a political rational like yours is definitely Lebanon's conscious and hopefully FPM's path of wisdom.
Actually I find your post excellent, but can't find the proper words nor an additional argument. But you are always great at putting me in this position of being speechless, this is not first time.

What remains for FPM is wait and watch...while being highly active in the relative passivity...

[December Rain]

Originally Posted by nuknuk

Zouxi, you should be happy about what Jumblatt is calling for unless you want to see more fighting and bloodshed amongst the Lebanese.

The country won't be stable unless Shi'ites, Sunnis, and Druze are on good terms.

yes and the christian communities are thrown outside of the equation, are u people for real ? ur happy with the fact that jomblat wants to alienate christians from one of the main national problems namely the issue with Israel.. as if they are not part of this country.... no one is against the druze, shiites and sunnis being on good terms....but of course not at the expense of the christians....

He is literally telling the christians to sit aside because they are not an essential part of the country..... if ur happy about that then it's a big problem....

honestly, i would've liked to make this post a bit longer,maybe to try to explain to you the jomblat ideology and his views concerning Lebanese christians (mainly maronites) but i decided it's useless because you guys are proving to be pathetically shortsighted.I am saddened by the fact that democracy is where two idiots outvote a genius...

[hannaalsayssa]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

Are some insinuating that Lebanese should always kill each others as soon as two unite?

Thank God those are not the decision makers in the FPM leadership.
I do remember that we all "had a dream" as patriots and nationalists when FPM initiated at Kasr elcha3b, most writers here were not born or were to young to read.
But I am not surprised, about many silly reactions, each community has the wise, the strong, the weak, the abnormal...And abnormality moves from generation to generation.

you need to add the

double faced
wousouleyye
intehazeyye.

[Joumana Gebara]

Originally Posted by December Rain

yes and the christian communities are thrown outside of the equation, are u people for real ? ur happy with the fact that jomblat wants to alienate christians from one of the main national problems namely the issue with Israel.. as if they are not part of this country.... no one is against the druze, shiites and sunnis being on good terms....but of course not at the expense of the christians....

He is literally telling the christians to sit aside because they are not an essential part of the country..... if ur happy about that then it's a big problem....

honestly, i would've liked to make this post a bit longer,maybe to try to explain to you the jomblat ideology and his views concerning Lebanese christians (mainly maronites) but i decided it's useless because you guys are proving to be pathetically shortsighted.I am saddened by the fact that democracy is where two idiots outvote a genius...

Jumblatt cannot dictate anything, neither on the Christian community nor on the Muslim one. Jumblatt is only proposing a Muslim unity, this is only to the favor of Lebanon. Do you really think Shiite/Sunnite differences toward Israel/Palestine or toward Lebanon will be setteled? And who told you Druz consider themselves Muslim? And so many other questions...

I do respect your approach which is comprehendable.. but I have no fear from Jumblatt... I see so many advantages in a Sunni/Shiite approach and this affecting positively the Christians. If Sunni and Shia unite this means Palestinians will not be naturalized, this means no wars in Lebanon and no further immigration of Lebanese and a better economic situation.
How are Christians marginalized in this case? I can't see a Christian marginalization except if they marginalize themselves because of their limited vision. I have no doubt this can evolve in a better condition for Christians and all of Lebanon. I can see a stop to foreign interference which is only to the favor of FPM's Christians (while LF and Kataeb will have funding and support cuts as they live on foreign support).

As mentioned, I understand you but hope you can see the other side of the coin.

[Abou Sandal]

One thing is sure:The so-called "Christian loyalists" are thrilled with the latest Jumbi proposition,and nothing would make them more happy than that.

Reason:Because he sidelined FPM from it, and this is all that matters.