All Hezbollah related subjects in this thread

[coralie]

to Tanios and joseph lubnan tell me what were your feelings when :
-you saw Zaki side by side with geagea kissing and hugging so friendly and so kindly? as if they were the best friends ever ..... when geagea during nahr al bared war ta7afna and said nehna wel falastiniyeh bi khanda2 wahad . (weird why then we lost 100 000 martyres in a war against the palestiniens if we are in the same khanda2?)
- what were your feelings when you saw gemayel amine kissing hugging Zaki as if he is the source of life ... what did you feel when gemayel proudly said on tv standing like a lion next to Zaki : the palestinians were the victimes of the Lebanese "civil" war !!!! yeah and our 100 000 martyres fighting under your banner your flag and your adiyeh were what ? disspensable extra lebanese lives ? ...

knowing those 2 worms and what sort of disaster both caused to our country kermel "el adiyeh" and knowing that the same reasons are more then ever indangering the existence of Lebanon as a whole and the christians specialement i dont understand how the 2 "most important popular christian" leaders who fought for the adiyeh w AMN al moujtama3 al massihi fawka koul i3tibar (tarik al kods tamor bi jouniyeh) today are willing to focus on HA weapons and shake hands kissing and hugging with palestinians armed "guests" forces inside Lebanese territories as a dawleh inside our "national" dawleh while they raised hell before telling ppl we should fight they want to take Lebanon as a new nation we should fight them LOL... funny huh ? !
think about it either your leaders lied to us back them and took us to a fake stupid 15 year "civil"war against palestinians we payed thousands of martyres , displaces , ruins and distructions for nothing ,so they should be questioned at least by you what is happening now ? are the palestinians safer and more trusworthy then HA ? walla 3ajab ya nass ajab how short some memories are or maybe how selective and amnesiac !

[4U2IMI8]

Originally Posted by Tanios

Incredible!!

This is a pure denial of democracy!!

to sumerize:"We know we are good, and we will convince you. Anyway we decide not the government , not the MPs, not law" !!!

It's reminding of some of X post +the "Pascal bet" : they are here and they are the strongest let's be with them and since it would be better if they were not evil let's assume they are not evil !!

(although being a milicia, starting wars on our behalf , having an AK47 in their flag , naming themself "Hezb Allah", threating to cut heads and hands, teaching children from their very young age the virtue of martyr and fanatism)

My post was very clear, and very decisive.
What's incredible is the way you answered.
I need not to defend anything i wrote, I believe I was very clear.
Yes, we do know what's good for "us", and we will continue to do what's good for "us" and our "people".
The negligence of the successive governments since the inception of Lebanon is proof enough that matters should not be left for them to decide "our" future. It's time we do what's good for "us", and not allow the corrupt, and the thieves to manage our lives.
U believe we a re a militia, good for you. Believe what you want, but the facts are very clear. All you need to do is look for them. Like I said before, I;ll be here if this thread evolves to maybe allow some to understand things about HA that are not clear to them.
I'm not here to convince, nor am I here to argue. I let facts speak on my behalf and others.
We are what we are, we will stay as we are, and we evolve on a daily basis.
We are a very dynamic group, clearly misunderstood, and clearly feared because of the awesome power we hold.
People in general fear the powerful because in Lebanon they're used to being stepped on by those in power.
"we" threaten to cut hands and heads, yes we do, and yes we will.
We are very clear in what we say and do. If anyone threatens our existence, we will defend ourselves with everything we have. We did that in the July war, and we are more than ready to do it again.
My words are very clear, read them slowly and try not to misunderstand them. If you use logic in your posts, I will be back to explain things to you, but if you keep this attitude of ignorance, this replly will be the last.
Peace.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

Some believe that the arms are no longer necessary from a pure Lebanese perspective. They believe that in fact today in 2008 the arms are a negative influence on the stability of the borders and Lebanon's ability to create and benefit from a neutral environment to protect itself as the middle east crisis continues to evolve. Some believe that the Shebaa farms are simply an excuse, that the prisoners issue can be resolved over time with other means and with calmer rhetoric much like everyone is dealing with the Syrian prisoners issue. Some have suspicions that Hezbullah's insistence on maintaining its arms doesn't only emanate from its desire to protect itself, in fact it is primarily driven by its desire to use these weapons for a broader regional goal that keeps the prospects of an open front in the south of Lebanon a reality for the benefit of regional players such as Iran, Syria and Hamas. Some believe that Hezbollah's weapons, may very well be used at some point in time for internal reasons, and they believe that political parties should not control militias and have arms that it can leverage politically, and internally, even if it doesn't ever use them. Some believe that Hezbollah is very interested in an Islamic Shiite state that transcends the borders of Lebanon and fear that one day It may use its arms to forward that goal. Some believe that peace and war in their country is an important matter that they should have a say in and are never willing to farm it out to one group, one sect, or one militia. These same people believe that appeasing HA is not the answer. They also believe that going to war with Hezbollah is not the answer either. They believe that isolating HA politically, and dealing with the matter of arms on the basis of strong principles and not on the basis of weak capitulation is the right way forward.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Most people arent suggesting disarming by force, they simply do not agree with FPM's self-serving defacto capitulation in the form of a marketing tool - the MOU.

As in? What strong principles? I asked a question before and didn't get an answer. Are you willing to stand up for the defence against any sort of aggression on the south and its people?

[supersonichadi]

Originally Posted by Tanios

I don't understand are the arms of HA to "protect" us from Israel or from the.. palestinians?

I thought it (HA) was a "moukawame" ?

"Let's pretend Hezbollah was disarmed tomorrow, that will mean the Palestinians are the most powerful force on the ground."---> this is the best !! And the army ? did you completely capitulate?? I thought the LA was the "7al"?

And MOST IMPORTANT, why are FPM MP NEVER asking for any long /medium or short term action to deal with the palestinian weapons?

Tshis is pure hypocrisy. the real reason is "you seriously believe that Hezbollah might actually hand it's arms " and it has absolutly NOTHING to do with the ridicule quantities of arms the palestinians have.

CHou sar fiik ya Tayyar ou Ya X!!?? a long time ago you were people of principle!! Now you want milicias to "protect you". Even when you know they are absolutly not protecting you ... from anything!!

I want to disarm HA now, do you have any solution for this issue other than war?

[supersonichadi]

Originally Posted by Tanios

You are right let's give back their weapons to LF and all the others...

You are speaking as if the LF don't have weapons, 'wen ba3dak ya man'.

Moreover, your intentions about this thread have been revealed.

[X]

Originally Posted by Tanios

I don't understand are the arms of HA to "protect" us from Israel or from the.. palestinians?

I thought it (HA) was a "moukawame" ?

"Let's pretend Hezbollah was disarmed tomorrow, that will mean the Palestinians are the most powerful force on the ground."---> this is the best !! And the army ? did you completely capitulate?? I thought the LA was the "7al"?

And MOST IMPORTANT, why are FPM MP NEVER asking for any long /medium or short term action to deal with the palestinian weapons?

Tshis is pure hypocrisy. the real reason is "you seriously believe that Hezbollah might actually hand it's arms " and it has absolutly NOTHING to do with the ridicule quantities of arms the palestinians have.

CHou sar fiik ya Tayyar ou Ya X!!?? a long time ago you were people of principle!! Now you want milicias to "protect you". Even when you know they are absolutly not protecting you ... from anything!!

I didn't say i or we need someone to protect me or us, i never said Hezbollah are to protect us, i just said Hezbollah will not disarm as long as Half a million Palestinians are heavily armed inside the camps, and thats a personal analysis, doesn't means i agree or disagree with it.

[Dry Ice]

The weapons of Hezbollah must be used as a negotiation card in a peace settlement with Israel.

Let's not squander it.

[CedarLb]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

I believe that the national defense strategy should be a matter of principle.

“The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable.”

—The Art of War, Sun Tzu

[needfortruth]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

Some believe that the arms are no longer necessary from a pure Lebanese perspective. They believe that in fact today in 2008 the arms are a negative influence on the stability of the borders and Lebanon's ability to create and benefit from a neutral environment to protect itself as the middle east crisis continues to evolve. Some believe that the Shebaa farms are simply an excuse, that the prisoners issue can be resolved over time with other means and with calmer rhetoric much like everyone is dealing with the Syrian prisoners issue. Some have suspicions that Hezbullah's insistence on maintaining its arms doesn't only emanate from its desire to protect itself, in fact it is primarily driven by its desire to use these weapons for a broader regional goal that keeps the prospects of an open front in the south of Lebanon a reality for the benefit of regional players such as Iran, Syria and Hamas. Some believe that Hezbollah's weapons, may very well be used at some point in time for internal reasons, and they believe that political parties should not control militias and have arms that it can leverage politically, and internally, even if it doesn't ever use them. Some believe that Hezbollah is very interested in an Islamic Shiite state that transcends the borders of Lebanon and fear that one day It may use its arms to forward that goal. Some believe that peace and war in their country is an important matter that they should have a say in and are never willing to farm it out to one group, one sect, or one militia. These same people believe that appeasing HA is not the answer. They also believe that going to war with Hezbollah is not the answer either. They believe that isolating HA politically, and dealing with the matter of arms on the basis of strong principles and not on the basis of weak capitulation is the right way forward.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Most people arent suggesting disarming by force, they simply do not agree with FPM's self-serving defacto capitulation in the form of a marketing tool - the MOU.

Here is what I wrote on May 2, 2006, in a post regarding this issue:

Regardless of what one feels about the Syrians, if you put the patriotic
emotions and fears aside, and from a 'mathematical' point of view, the
Syrians provided the balance needed to keep Harriri and Saudi Arabia
from a complete take over. When Harriri was killed, the Sunnis and
Jumblat turned to the Christians for help and support, then immediately
went back to their original objectives. Their greed led the 'Shiya' and
the Christians to recognize their need for each other, or created that
need if you like. Today, agree or not, I think Hezbollah's weapons
along with the Syrian/Iranian backing are what is keeping this balance.
The Christians are surviving all this by the work of few good people and
a lot of luck.
Another point is, the Sunnis, i.e., Harriri, have lots of financial
power, backed by one of the biggest financial powers in the world,
supported strongly by two of the most powerful nations in the world, has
selfish goals, and are on the offensive, are much more dangerous than
Hezbollah with weapons, who are on the defensive, regarded as
'terrorists' by major nations, and everyone is waiting for them to make
a mistake and use their weapons internally so they can discredit their
claim to be a Resistance and not a militia, and therefore go after them.
Also, don't forget who massacred Christians many times over including in
recent history.

Finally, If Harriri/Jumblat and their 'Christian allies' think that in
few month they can elect the president, and then everybody 'goes home',
they are delusional. It is the same scenario of 1989: no agreement on a
president was reached, two separate governments were formed and the
country went into turmoil. Neither the 'Chiya' nor the Christians are
going to sit back and say "oh well they elected a president! Let's go
home". The Harriri/Jumblatt are leading everyone to disaster. If we
think we are afraid that Syria may try and come back to Lebanon, wait
until then, when everyone starts fighting everyone else.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Back in the day we thought that when the Syrians leave, the Christians will not have to fight for their rights.

Back in the day we thought that when the Syrians leave, we will have a fair electoral law without the need for begging, and that we would never have to use the 2000 election law ever again.

Back in the day we thought that when the Syrians leave, the Christians will have equal representation in the government.

Back in the day we thought that when the Syrians leave, the Chrisitan will get to elect their leadership, and those elected leadership will be able to represent them and no one would have the power to sideline them just because they can.

Back in the day we thought that when the Syrians leave, we would not be threatened of a civil war just because we elected a leadership that Jumblatt did not impose on us.

Back in the day we thought that when the Syrians leave, there will be no more risk of 'islamizing' Lebanon, cncelling our holidays, and imposing a Muslim education agenda.

Back in the day...Back in the day...

[Qwiw]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

Some believe that the arms are no longer necessary from a pure Lebanese perspective. They believe that in fact today in 2008 the arms are a negative influence on the stability of the borders and Lebanon's ability to create and benefit from a neutral environment to protect itself as the middle east crisis continues to evolve. Some believe that the Shebaa farms are simply an excuse, that the prisoners issue can be resolved over time with other means and with calmer rhetoric much like everyone is dealing with the Syrian prisoners issue. Some have suspicions that Hezbullah's insistence on maintaining its arms doesn't only emanate from its desire to protect itself, in fact it is primarily driven by its desire to use these weapons for a broader regional goal that keeps the prospects of an open front in the south of Lebanon a reality for the benefit of regional players such as Iran, Syria and Hamas. Some believe that Hezbollah's weapons, may very well be used at some point in time for internal reasons, and they believe that political parties should not control militias and have arms that it can leverage politically, and internally, even if it doesn't ever use them. Some believe that Hezbollah is very interested in an Islamic Shiite state that transcends the borders of Lebanon and fear that one day It may use its arms to forward that goal. Some believe that peace and war in their country is an important matter that they should have a say in and are never willing to farm it out to one group, one sect, or one militia. These same people believe that appeasing HA is not the answer. They also believe that going to war with Hezbollah is not the answer either. They believe that isolating HA politically, and dealing with the matter of arms on the basis of strong principles and not on the basis of weak capitulation is the right way forward.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Most people arent suggesting disarming by force, they simply do not agree with FPM's self-serving defacto capitulation in the form of a marketing tool - the MOU.

Drop your governmental declaration first and then, you will have the right to ask such request to FPM. Ask Hariri to stop his 20 years of support for the resistance and then, you can go back here and tell us what you are asking for now.
The first (and only lebanese) document which is evoking the end of Hezbollah arms is the MOU. If the people who are criticizing it have another solution, we urge them to sign it with Hezbollah, otherwise it's not a solution. When you look for a solution, you do it with what you're thinking is the problem and not by insulting or disrespecting or diabolizing him every day.

What is unbelievable here is that you are talking about Hezbollah arms which were never turned against Lebanese (and they proved their efficiency on summer 2006) but no word about Palestinian arms. The civil war started with Palestinians and 1 year ago we were attacked by extremists from Palestinian camp of Nahr el Bared too.

Your support of Palestinian arms is so obvious and you want to hide it by parasiting and asking for the end of the only Lebanese resistance against Israeli agressions.

Joseph Lubnan, if you had some credibility, you would ask first for the end of Palestinian arms which were always our big problem but your only concern now is to mark political points by provoking sectarian tensions. Corner Hezbollah politically means corner a big portion of a lebanese community...ya3né the same technique Hariri-Joumblat-Berri used against christians during syrian occupation. Shame on you!