All Hezbollah related subjects in this thread

[joseph_lubnan]

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

Some believe that the arms are no longer necessary from a pure Lebanese perspective. They believe that in fact today in 2008 the arms are a negative influence on the stability of the borders and Lebanon's ability to create and benefit from a neutral environment to protect itself as the middle east crisis continues to evolve. Some believe that the Shebaa farms are simply an excuse, that the prisoners issue can be resolved over time with other means and with calmer rhetoric much like everyone is dealing with the Syrian prisoners issue. Some have suspicions that Hezbullah's insistence on maintaining its arms doesn't only emanate from its desire to protect itself, in fact it is primarily driven by its desire to use these weapons for a broader regional goal that keeps the prospects of an open front in the south of Lebanon a reality for the benefit of regional players such as Iran, Syria and Hamas. Some believe that Hezbollah's weapons, may very well be used at some point in time for internal reasons, and they believe that political parties should not control militias and have arms that it can leverage politically, and internally, even if it doesn't ever use them. Some believe that Hezbollah is very interested in an Islamic Shiite state that transcends the borders of Lebanon and fear that one day It may use its arms to forward that goal. Some believe that peace and war in their country is an important matter that they should have a say in and are never willing to farm it out to one group, one sect, or one militia. These same people believe that appeasing HA is not the answer. They also believe that going to war with Hezbollah is not the answer either. They believe that isolating HA politically, and dealing with the matter of arms on the basis of strong principles and not on the basis of weak capitulation is the right way forward.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Most people arent suggesting disarming by force, they simply do not agree with FPM's self-serving defacto capitulation in the form of a marketing tool - the MOU.

[X]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

Some believe that the arms are no longer necessary from a pure Lebanese perspective. They believe that in fact today in 2008 the arms are a negative influence on the stability of the borders and Lebanon's ability to create and benefit from a neutral environment to protect itself as the middle east crisis continues to evolve. Some believe that the Shebaa farms are simply an excuse, that the prisoners issue can be resolved over time with other means and with calmer rhetoric much like everyone is dealing with the Syrian prisoners issue. Some have suspicions that Hezbullah's insistence on maintaining its arms doesn't only emanate from its desire to protect itself, in fact it is primarily driven by its desire to use these weapons for a broader regional goal that keeps the prospects of an open front in the south of Lebanon a reality for the benefit of regional players such as Iran, Syria and Hamas. Some believe that Hezbollah's weapons, may very well be used at some point in time for internal reasons, and they believe that political parties should not control militias and have arms that it can leverage politically, and internally, even if it doesn't ever use them. Some believe that Hezbollah is very interested in an Islamic Shiite state that transcends the borders of Lebanon and fear that one day It may use its arms to forward that goal. Some believe that peace and war in their country is an important matter that they should have a say in and are never willing to farm it out to one group, one sect, or one militia. These same people believe that appeasing HA is not the answer. They also believe that going to war with Hezbollah is not the answer either. They believe that isolating HA politically, and dealing with the matter of arms on the basis of strong principles and not on the basis of weak capitulation is the right way forward.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Most people arent suggesting disarming by force, they simply do not agree with FPM's self-serving defacto capitulation in the form of a marketing tool - the MOU.

I don't mean "you" in person, but you along with all the others (politicians) never talk about or mention anything about the "arms" inside the Palestinian camps.

Let's pretend Hezbollah was disarmed tomorrow, that will mean the Palestinians are the most powerful force on the ground.

The way i see it, the settlement is all set, get rid of Hezbollah's arms, blow the MOU away and Abas Zaki will be our next President and Soultan Abou el Ainen the new army commander in chief.

Joseph, you seriously believe that Hezbollah might actually commit suicide and hand it's arms when they know the Palestinians are sitting on "tersene" in the camps?

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

The issue of Hezbullah arms is a matter of principle.

Some believe that the arms are no longer necessary from a pure Lebanese perspective. They believe that in fact today in 2008 the arms are a negative influence on the stability of the borders and Lebanon's ability to create and benefit from a neutral environment to protect itself as the middle east crisis continues to evolve. Some believe that the Shebaa farms are simply an excuse, that the prisoners issue can be resolved over time with other means and with calmer rhetoric much like everyone is dealing with the Syrian prisoners issue. Some have suspicions that Hezbullah's insistence on maintaining its arms doesn't only emanate from its desire to protect itself, in fact it is primarily driven by its desire to use these weapons for a broader regional goal that keeps the prospects of an open front in the south of Lebanon a reality for the benefit of regional players such as Iran, Syria and Hamas. Some believe that Hezbollah's weapons, may very well be used at some point in time for internal reasons, and they believe that political parties should not control militias and have arms that it can leverage politically, and internally, even if it doesn't ever use them. Some believe that Hezbollah is very interested in an Islamic Shiite state that transcends the borders of Lebanon and fear that one day It may use its arms to forward that goal. Some believe that peace and war in their country is an important matter that they should have a say in and are never willing to farm it out to one group, one sect, or one militia. These same people believe that appeasing HA is not the answer. They also believe that going to war with Hezbollah is not the answer either. They believe that isolating HA politically, and dealing with the matter of arms on the basis of strong principles and not on the basis of weak capitulation is the right way forward.

Back in the day GMA used to be one of these people.

Most people arent suggesting disarming by force, they simply do not agree with FPM's self-serving defacto capitulation in the form of a marketing tool - the MOU.

i don't think GMA believed all those points you discussed.. he surely agrees with some of them and still declares it openly..

however, what are the guarantees that however is in power right now will not:
-naturalize the palestinians by force
-take control over the country by force and disrespect the laws and implement new ones as he sees fit
-allow the israelis to interfere militarily in Lebanon by force
-control the country's wealth and use for personal reasons by force
-change the spirit of the country by force for the sake of establishing a new regime
-use the armed palestinians solely for his own interests...

let's disarm HA but first i (of course as well as HA) would like some guarantees..

kappa

[Shuyu3i]

I do not know why we talk about HA arms alot. Some people are not even talking about the arms inside the palestinians camps and the arms outside. Again, once ALL are disarmed inside and outside the camps, shebaa is liberated and the prisoners are freed then HA shall give it's weapons to the lebanese army.

[LEBANESE FRONT 75]

Originally Posted by kappa273

i don't think GMA believed all those points you discussed.. he surely agrees with some of them and still declares it openly..

however, what are the guarantees that however is in power right now will not:
-naturalize the palestinians by force
-take control over the country by force and disrespect the laws and implement new ones as he sees fit
-allow the israelis to interfere militarily in Lebanon by force
-control the country's wealth and use for personal reasons by force
-change the spirit of the country by force for the sake of establishing a new regime
-use the armed palestinians solely for his own interests...

let's disarm HA but first i (of course as well as HA) would like some guarantees..

kappa

Your reasons "By force" is not the most likely situation, you have chosen huge odds for all the above to happen by force, if its one thing we have be taught in Lebanon is that nothing can happen "by force"

Lets disarm HA by dialogue, with the help of the FPM and assure them that we will tackle the issue of the arms of the camps together as LEBANESE !!

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by LEBANESE FRONT 75

Your reasons "By force" is not the most likely situation, you have chosen huge odds for all the above to happen by force, if its one thing we have be taught in Lebanon is that nothing can happen "by force"

Lets disarm HA by dialogue, with the help of the FPM and assure them that we will tackle the issue of the arms of the camps together as LEBANESE !!

i don't accept that a lebanese party whoever it is gets disarmed before the palestinians..

because no matter how much i may disagree iwth that lebanese party, I still trust over any palestinian, syrian, israeli, etc.....

in this case, i don't accept any negotiations in the issue of weapons of HA if the palestinian ones are not taken care of or at least dealt with during those negotiations..

this is the most obvious and easy to understand problem.. other problems I talked about in my "by force" paragraph should also be included in the negotiations and this is what FPM has already started through the MoU.

kappa

[4U2IMI8]

I read your thread Joseph and it baffled me in a way. What do you suggest exactly? what is your solution? I know what the weapons are for, I know what they'll be used for, and I know the purpose behind them
I understand your fears and the fears of others, but if you think logically you'll understand that these weapons are a blessing to Lebanon not a curse like some people are trying to make them.
We don't use them against Lebanese, and we don't want to change Lebanon. We like it the way it is.
We don't need to give assurances because no one wants to listen to them. They want us to disarm and than they want to decide our future and those of our people, our women and children.
Their future is decided by us not by the politicians sitting in a saraya trying to make money off the back of the poor and the oppressed.
If you truly understand the strength of HA your post would be completely different. I don't blame you for not understanding, but it doesn't take much to know our intentions, and our vision.
Honor is a word we use a lot. We use it because it is the building block of who we are. It is very important to us to do what we say we want to do. There are no lies from HA, what you hear from them is what's gonna happen.
Listen carefully Joseph, and read a lot, maybe you'll be able to at least appreciate what HA truly is.
If this thread evolves more, I'll come back and maybe shed some light on certain things relating to HA, not for our sake but for the sake of those who don't understand us.

[Tanios]

Originally Posted by X

I don't mean "you" in person, but you along with all the others (politicians) never talk about or mention anything about the "arms" inside the Palestinian camps.

Let's pretend Hezbollah was disarmed tomorrow, that will mean the Palestinians are the most powerful force on the ground.

The way i see it, the settlement is all set, get rid of Hezbollah's arms, blow the MOU away and Abas Zaki will be our next President and Soultan Abou el Ainen the new army commander in chief.

Joseph, you seriously believe that Hezbollah might actually commit suicide and hand it's arms when they know the Palestinians are sitting on "tersene" in the camps?

I don't understand are the arms of HA to "protect" us from Israel or from the.. palestinians?

I thought it (HA) was a "moukawame" ?

"Let's pretend Hezbollah was disarmed tomorrow, that will mean the Palestinians are the most powerful force on the ground."---> this is the best !! And the army ? did you completely capitulate?? I thought the LA was the "7al"?

And MOST IMPORTANT, why are FPM MP NEVER asking for any long /medium or short term action to deal with the palestinian weapons?

Tshis is pure hypocrisy. the real reason is "you seriously believe that Hezbollah might actually hand it's arms " and it has absolutly NOTHING to do with the ridicule quantities of arms the palestinians have.

CHou sar fiik ya Tayyar ou Ya X!!?? a long time ago you were people of principle!! Now you want milicias to "protect you". Even when you know they are absolutly not protecting you ... from anything!!

[Tanios]

Originally Posted by 4U2IMI8

I read your thread Joseph and it baffled me in a way. What do you suggest exactly? what is your solution? I know what the weapons are for, I know what they'll be used for, and I know the purpose behind them
I understand your fears and the fears of others, but if you think logically you'll understand that these weapons are a blessing to Lebanon not a curse like some people are trying to make them.
We don't use them against Lebanese, and we don't want to change Lebanon. We like it the way it is.
We don't need to give assurances because no one wants to listen to them. They want us to disarm and than they want to decide our future and those of our people, our women and children.
Their future is decided by us not by the politicians sitting in a saraya trying to make money off the back of the poor and the oppressed.
If you truly understand the strength of HA your post would be completely different. I don't blame you for not understanding, but it doesn't take much to know our intentions, and our vision.
Honor is a word we use a lot. We use it because it is the building block of who we are. It is very important to us to do what we say we want to do. There are no lies from HA, what you hear from them is what's gonna happen.
Listen carefully Joseph, and read a lot, maybe you'll be able to at least appreciate what HA truly is.
If this thread evolves more, I'll come back and maybe shed some light on certain things relating to HA, not for our sake but for the sake of those who don't understand us.

Incredible!!

This is a pure denial of democracy!!

to sumerize:"We know we are good, and we will convince you. Anyway we decide not the government , not the MPs, not law" !!!

It's reminding of some of X post +the "Pascal bet" : they are here and they are the strongest let's be with them and since it would be better if they were not evil let's assume they are not evil !!

(although being a milicia, starting wars on our behalf , having an AK47 in their flag , naming themself "Hezb Allah", threating to cut heads and hands, teaching children from their very young age the virtue of martyr and fanatism)

[Tanios]

Originally Posted by kappa273

i don't accept that a lebanese party whoever it is gets disarmed before the palestinians..

You are right let's give back their weapons to LF and all the others...