All Hezbollah related subjects in this thread

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by chafic

No, I would choose opposing Hezbollah and fighting its ideology. In simple non elaborate terms, people are not genetically Hezbollah, or FPM or LF or republicans or democrats, and further, it's not like they're born Shiites or Sunnis, or Maronites, or Bahaii, or Hindus. So the whole argument is a nonstarter in my opinion.

Not ignoring or discussing or even agreeing with Hezbollah on a Memorandum of Understanding does not mean you support it or your believe its ideology.
We are opposed to Hezbollah ideology but we agree with it on a Memorandum of Understanding. Did you read the MoU? Read it and then back to me.

[chafic]

Originally Posted by Bejin

Not ignoring or discussing or even agreeing with Hezbollah on a Memorandum of Understanding does not mean you support it or your believe its ideology.
We are opposed to Hezbollah ideology but we agree with it on a Memorandum of Understanding. Did you read the MoU? Read it and then back to me.

What does that even mean. That's a totally different subject. But Bejin, I probably read the MoU long before you did, but that thing that started out well at some point, turned out to be just a delusion to shove in the face of skeptics about the Hezbollahi FPMian relations.
Regardless, it's just utterly ridiculous to claim being against Hezbollah's ideology and ally with it at the same time. That could only be understood as if you're looking for means to survival, but then I wouldn't understand the "why not" of an alliance with Qaeda too. In terms of politics, an alliance between a secular liberal party and a conservative religious party is no different from an agreement between the Vatican and atheists on the origin of life or existence.

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by chafic

Vego, disagreeing is one thing I do not mind at all, that's what discussion is about. But straw mans (and other intended fallacies) is something I do not cherish. As I made it clear quite many times already, I'm not trying to convince you of the info, and I'm not asserting that it's necessarily true, but I was simply noting the source of a member's post's.

I will do the same with my comments about KSA. deal?

No, I was serious. There simply is no significant difference, in terms of militiahood and violence, on your scales, between FM and FPM.

I beg to differ. FM is well armed, yet its members are not well trained. As well, FM finances many paramilitary groups in the North and South as well (Afwaj Trablous, Jund el Cham, 3osbat el Ansar, etc...)

Yes, for a fight to last 2 days, Hezbollah must have been fighting itself. Noo7 Zaayter could have lasted longer in the fight, or the dudes in my village with their hunting rifles.

It doesn't matter whether the FM militiamen lasted long or not. What matters is that they were able to keep firing for 2 whole days. That's a lot of ammo. Not to forget what was confiscated in some of its offices.
As for the dudes in ur village being able to stand against HA fighters for more than 2 days, I seriously doubt.

No, but how do they prove that FM is a militia?

Afwaj Trablous is linked to which party?
Saad Hariri, by just one signature, being able to end an entire month of clashes means what exactly?

Freedom of speech includes all. FM did not show any attitude of violence or repression toward someone who has different opinions.

Not violence or repression but refusal to accept freedom of speech for others. remember the Chaoul manifesto? And can we forget that each time GMA verbally criticizes someone he is labeled as attacking freedom of speech whilst others are free to bash him day and night without a single reproach?
And what about the lawsuits raised by FPM against Shira3 and others? why do they keep on getting postponed while one single attack from Wahhab on Hariri pushed the courts to force him to pay damages?
As for repression, well The Information Branch of the ISf, ring a bell? Did u forget about the incident where 2 FPM activists (who were former bodyguards of GMA in 2005) were arrested by the ISF with no "mouzakkarat taw2if" for 2 days without their parents knowing their whereabouts only to be released later after the involvement of the LA?

I'm not sure why this should be a subject of discussion either; FM is clearly a secular party.

Pretty obvious...

How could you support Hezbollah then? A clerical thecratic party?

What has that got to do with what I wrote before?

So again, do you have any proofs?

Check my first reply in this post.

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by chafic

What does that even mean. That's a totally different subject. But Bejin, I probably read the MoU long before you did, but that thing that started out well at some point, turned out to be just a delusion to shove in the face of skeptics about the Hezbollahi FPMian relations.
Regardless, it's just utterly ridiculous to claim being against Hezbollah's ideology and ally with it at the same time. That could only be understood as if you're looking for means to survival, but then I wouldn't understand the "why not" of an alliance with Qaeda too. In terms of politics, an alliance between a secular liberal party and a conservative religious party is no different from an agreement between the Vatican and atheists on the origin of life or existence.

FPM is a christian movement calling for secularism. Liberty Front is also a christian movement calling for secularism.
In your logic, christian and muslim parties or movements in Lebanon can not ally since they have different ideology...

[fidelio]

Originally Posted by Bejin

FPM is a christian movement calling for secularism. Liberty Front is also a christian movement calling for secularism.

Beyond the fact that the sentence above has more surrealism than Magritte himself, but what does "Christian movement" mean anyway?

[chafic]

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

I will do the same with my comments about KSA. deal?

No problem to me. That makes your comments are just as credible as Rai's.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

I beg to differ. FM is well armed, yet its members are not well trained. As well, FM finances many paramilitary groups in the North and South as well (Afwaj Trablous, Jund el Cham, 3osbat el Ansar, etc...)

Not really. Like Aoun once said, many people have individual arms, with those, Hariri's supporters could have lasted for more than 2 days, were they really fighting. But after all, what is a militia all about? Besides arms, there is the training, the logistics, the communications, and the military leadership. FM has none of that, at least not more than FPM does.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

It doesn't matter whether the FM militiamen lasted long or not. What matters is that they were able to keep firing for 2 whole days. That's a lot of ammo. Not to forget what was confiscated in some of its offices.

Of course it does matter.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

As for the dudes in ur village being able to stand against HA fighters for more than 2 days, I seriously doubt.

With hunting rifles, and slingshots.

Afwaj Trablous is linked to which party?
Saad Hariri, by just one signature, being able to end an entire month of clashes means what exactly?

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

Not violence or repression but refusal to accept freedom of speech for others. remember the Chaoul manifesto? And can we forget that each time GMA verbally criticizes someone he is labeled as attacking freedom of speech whilst others are free to bash him day and night without a single reproach?

That's difference of opinions, and part of freedom of speech.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

And what about the lawsuits raised by FPM against Shira3 and others? why do they keep on getting postponed while one single attack from Wahhab on Hariri pushed the courts to force him to pay damages?

You have to ask the tribunal about that. It's a totally irrelevant argument though when discussing FM's attitude toward freedom of speech.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

As for repression, well The Information Branch of the ISf, ring a bell? Did u forget about the incident where 2 FPM activists (who were former bodyguards of GMA in 2005) were arrested by the ISF with no "mouzakkarat taw2if" for 2 days without their parents knowing their whereabouts only to be released later after the involvement of the LA?

One moment you're against militiamen, the second moment you're defending them. But again, that's an irrelevant argument if you're using it against FM; You have to question the ISF about it.

Hezbollah's burning of the Future TV, or the riots over Bassmat Watan's depiction of Nasrallah, or its "Tahher ni3ak"'s comments speak louder. Those are small examples.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

Pretty obvious...

Without a shred of doubt. It's secular, and that doesn't mean it's not sectarian.

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

What has that got to do with what I wrote before?

It has everything to do with it. You were ranting about giving licenses to an Islamic party, so how could you be allied with one?

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

Check my first reply in this post.

So, as you previously described al Rai's information, your accusations to FM are bogus?

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Bejin

Not ignoring or discussing or even agreeing with Hezbollah on a Memorandum of Understanding does not mean you support it or your believe its ideology.
We are opposed to Hezbollah ideology but we agree with it on a Memorandum of Understanding. Did you read the MoU? Read it and then back to me.

To believe in HA's ideology you have to be Shiaa, so no need to explain yourself. Being opposed to it is another story, there's nothing you can do, we ain't planning on converting lol.

Originally Posted by Bejin

FPM is a christian movement calling for secularism. Liberty Front is also a christian movement calling for secularism.
In your logic, christian and muslim parties or movements in Lebanon can not ally since they have different ideology...

What do you mean by "Christian Movement"? What about the non-Chrsitian FPMers?

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by chafic

What are you talking about Bejin? I really see no shred of logic or relevance in what you said; It's like one has to redefine thousands of ideas to go on with this discussion. I really have no intention of doing that, apologies.

You are not logic. You said that because we are opposed to Hezbollah ideology we can not agree with them... I replied to you, we have our own ideology and we agree with Hezbollah on Memorandum Of Understanding. If parties with different ideology can not agree, how can Lebanon work?

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Bejin

Lebanese Forces Resistance was called "Christian Resistance" but gave a lot of non-Christians martyrs:

Great !

Why you dont go and join Saraya el moqawama and fight with Hizbollah, like the above muslims did with the christian resistance ! Or your logic is still: Syria is the enemy while is israel is the freind !

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by mount_amel

Great !

Why you dont go and join Saraya el moqawama and fight with Hizbollah, like the above muslims did with the christian resistance ! Or your logic is still: Syria is the enemy while is israel is the freind !

I did not say Israel is the friend. I am always calling Hezbollah, "Resistance" or "Islamic Resistance". You can also watch Fouad Abou Nader and Nawwaf Moussawi debat and the mutual respect between them and for the resistance of both.
We are calling for a national guard integrating the Islamic Resistance and everyone who wants from any region and sect.