All Hezbollah related subjects in this thread

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by MindFree

Check Naim Kassem's book, he talked about how they consult the Wali al fakih in major issues, he gave an example that in 1992, the executive committee of HA wanted to know if it is 'machrou3' to participate in parliamentary elections, so they consulted the Wali fakih who validated it. That is an example given by the deputy secretary general of HA.

Supposedly.

I can understand that participating in elections (and in politics in general) for a religious party,can need a religious ground,thus the least to do,would be a consultation ,since Khaminei is the religious "Marja3" to HA.

But that's on the level of consulting and only consulting.Besides,it is all about participating,or not participating in elections:The principle itself.

Totally different from what you're implying about the fact that Khaminei controls HA and decides for it,on what to do,and how to act.Totally different.

Thus your misleading post,and twisted explanation.

Originally Posted by MindFree

As for more general evidence, HA leadership doesnt deny at all beleiving in wilayat al fakih, and the wali fakih has enormous powers that include of course the political scope.

Your choice of general and ambiguous words not backed by even one FACT is enough to prove that you don't know what you're talking about.

I think that i have my answer now.

[Dalzi]

Those "Arabs" one day poison him, the other day issue fatwas about his leadership. Consulting Khomeini about Nasrallah is purely religious! It has nothing to do with the elections unless it is also believed that Khomeini can do magic.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by chafic

But for some reason FM is not an armed militia, does not advocate an Islamic ideology, and is more liberal than Hezbollah. Should one conclude that the King is way better than the Fakih?

If FM is not an armed militia

And

If FM does not advocate an Islamic ideology (or at least does not hides behind one)

And

If FM is more liberal than Hezbollah,

Then the only conclusion would be that the king is being ripped off his money,lied to,and conned.

But that's only IF...

[MindFree]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Supposedly.

I can understand that participating in elections (and in politics in general) for a religious party,can need a religious ground,thus the least to do,would be a consultation ,since Khaminei is the religious "Marja3" to HA.

But that's on the level of consulting and only consulting.Besides,it is all about participating,or not participating in elections.

Totally different from what you're implying about the fact that Khaminei controls HA and decides for it,on what to do,and how to act.Totally different.

Thus your misleading post,and twisted explanation.



Your choice of general and ambiguous words not backed by even one FACT is enough to prove that you don't know what you're talking about.

I think that i have my answer now.

مقتطفات من كتاب نعيم قاسم :

ص ٢٣ : القيادة الشرعية للولي الفقيه كخليفة للنبي والأئمة وهو الذي يرسم الخطوط العريضة للعمل في ألم وأمره ونهيه نافذان.

ص٢٧٣ : ثم جرى إستفتاء سماحة الولي الفقيه الامام الخامنئي حول المشروعية فالإنتخابات النيابية بعد تقديم إقتراح اللجنة فاجاز وايد . عندها حسمت المشاركة في الإنتخابات النيابية ودخل المشروع في برنامج والية الحزب .

as for me not knowing the scope of wilayat al fakih, i ll quote the one who was behind this theory that created salafism inside the shiite community, khomeini says in his book 'alhoukouma al islamiya' the following:

فتوهم أن صلاحيات النبي في الحكم كانت أكثر من صلاحيات أمير المؤمنين وصلاحيات أمير المؤمنين أكثر من صلاحيات الفقيه هو توهم خاطئ وباطل . نعم إن فضائل الرسول بالطبع هي أكثر من فضائل جميع البشر لكن كثرة الفضائل المعنوية لا تزيد في صلاحيات الحكم فالصلاحيات نفسها التي كانت للرسول ولائمة في تعبئة الجيوش وتعيين الولاة والمحافظين واستلام الضرائب وصرفها في مصالح المسلمين قد أعطاها الله للحكومة المفترضة هذه الأيام . غاية الأمر لم يعين شخصاً بالخصوص وانما أعطاه لعنوان العالم العادل.

[Mr Aoun]

Consultation = Istikhara

[MindFree]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Supposedly.

I can understand that participating in elections (and in politics in general) for a religious party,can need a religious ground,thus the least to do,would be a consultation ,since Khaminei is the religious "Marja3" to HA.

But that's on the level of consulting and only consulting.Besides,it is all about participating,or not participating in elections:The principle itself.

Totally different from what you're implying about the fact that Khaminei controls HA and decides for it,on what to do,and how to act.Totally different.

Thus your misleading post,and twisted explanation.

adding to the above.
No it is not only consulting, because if he refuses they wont do it, it is not like they are taking the opinion of an expert then they are free to choose, his decision counts.
and if your are trying to make it sound better, that the issue is about the principle of participating or not in the elections, then you failed big time, i honestly would prefer him interfering in a more detailed issue, than in such fundemantal issue, it means that the foundations of the lebanese state are bound to the acceptance of his highness in Tahran. I hope we will get a prior notice when he changes his mind.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by MindFree

مقتطفات من كتاب نعيم قاسم :

ص ٢٣ : القيادة الشرعية للولي الفقيه كخليفة للنبي والأئمة وهو الذي يرسم الخطوط العريضة للعمل في ألم وأمره ونهيه نافذان.

ص٢٧٣ : ثم جرى إستفتاء سماحة الولي الفقيه الامام الخامنئي حول المشروعية فالإنتخابات النيابية بعد تقديم إقتراح اللجنة فاجاز وايد . عندها حسمت المشاركة في الإنتخابات النيابية ودخل المشروع في برنامج والية الحزب .

as for me not knowing the scope of wilayat al fakih, i ll quote the one who was behind this theory that created salafism inside the shiite community, khomeini says in his book 'alhoukouma al islamiya' the following:

فتوهم أن صلاحيات النبي في الحكم كانت أكثر من صلاحيات أمير المؤمنين وصلاحيات أمير المؤمنين أكثر من صلاحيات الفقيه هو توهم خاطئ وباطل . نعم إن فضائل الرسول بالطبع هي أكثر من فضائل جميع البشر لكن كثرة الفضائل المعنوية لا تزيد في صلاحيات الحكم فالصلاحيات نفسها التي كانت للرسول ولائمة في تعبئة الجيوش وتعيين الولاة والمحافظين واستلام الضرائب وصرفها في مصالح المسلمين قد أعطاها الله للحكومة المفترضة هذه الأيام . غاية الأمر لم يعين شخصاً بالخصوص وانما أعطاه لعنوان العالم العادل.

Thanks for proving my point with your excerpts.

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by chafic

Of course it couldn't be taken for granted.

yes it certainly should. Either show me the transcript of the fatwa or it's safe to assume it's bogus.

But for some reason FM is not an armed militia, does not advocate an Islamic ideology, and is more liberal than Hezbollah. Should one conclude that the King is way better than the Fakih?

Sorry to break it for u but FM is an armed militia, and is not that much more liberal than HA, economically yes, but not much further than that.
About the Islamic ideology part, FM doesn't advocate it but it certainly gives licenses to parties who do.
As for the last statement, a reply it doesn't deserve.

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by MindFree

the need to bring FM somehow each time you are cornered regarding an argument of HA is both funny and hypocrite.

Actually the hypocrisy lies with u accusing ur opponent of something while ur own party is actually involved in the same thing.

It's better not to throw stones when ur house is made of glass.

[Proud Republican]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Supposedly.

I can understand that participating in elections (and in politics in general) for a religious party,can need a religious ground,thus the least to do,would be a consultation ,since Khaminei is the religious "Marja3" to HA.

But that's on the level of consulting and only consulting.Besides,it is all about participating,or not participating in elections:The principle itself.

Totally different from what you're implying about the fact that Khaminei controls HA and decides for it,on what to do,and how to act.Totally different.

Thus your misleading post,and twisted explanation.



Your choice of general and ambiguous words not backed by even one FACT is enough to prove that you don't know what you're talking about.

I think that i have my answer now.

Abou Sandal,

Please stop fooling yourself and your friends. We all clearly know what Hizballah is, and who Hizballah depends of... hizballah without the backing of Iran is meaningless. You might also want to say that the Future Movement without the backing of Saoudi Arabia is also meaningless. I can only agree.

The only left are, us, the Christians who still do not totally depend on foreigners. They might have ties but not dependance. Please stop deniying the survival of Hizballah because of iran. I beleive Lebaneses still have a minimum of IQ and intellligence but most of all a minimum of RESPECT. Lets stop fooling each other.

The iranian revolutionary guards are partially in control of Hizballah.

Does Hizballah takes its ideological inspiration from the Iranian revolution and the teachings of Ayatollah Khomeini? YES

Does Hizballah objective is dedicated to liberating Jerusalem and eliminating Israel? YES

Does Hizballah formally advocated ultimate establishment of Islamic rule in Lebanon? YES

Does Hizballah is strongly anti-Western party? YES

Did the establishment of the Islamic Revolution in Iran that was led by the Khomeini developed the party of Hizballah with the concept of Willayat Al-Faqih? YES

Hizballah is definetly depending on Iran and has rarely the capability and willingness to act independently even if it may have conducted operations that were not approved by Iran!

BUT again the only point that we CANNOT DENY is that Hizballah's status is Iran's front-line operative arm against Israel. NO MORE NO LESS. Their Lebanese agenda is inexistant.




As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. A.H.