against the vote of moughtaribin in 2013

[ceaoun]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

Some replies to this thread are so deceiving that I doubt now that FPM is different from other fascist parties in Lebanon, and I'll explain why.

In your program you write DAWLET 7AK, you right about |equality" between Lebanese but in practice you violate all your principles and values just for your own interests.

I do not see FPMers or decision makers playing a role model in improving this country when diaspora Lebanese are only to vote "under conditions" or with "MPs" representing them etc.

Either FPM wants to make DAWLET 7AK or it doesn't. Period.

Either FPM acknowledges and FORGES the right of ALL Lebanese to vote in their embassies, or it doesn't.

In case you do not forge it shows that all what FPM cares about is "power position" and taking credibility for improvements, and not the FPM I thought would sacrifice and work hard for a better future.

Yes, maybe not all Lebanese deserve sacrifice but this is not what parties are for, this is not what parties exist for. Parties exist to improve citizens lives by giving them their rights and directing them through values.

Also Kataeb claim they want a civil state but do not aply anything from their claim which made them lose credibility. Hizbullah also claims that it wants a progressive state but does not apply anything when it is not even ready to negotiate its weapons. Future also claims that it wants national unity and progress but would not give FPM 5 ministerial offices in 2005.

I am deceived, yes, big time. All parties work for their own interests toward achieving more power and not for the progress of the citizens. Parties like FPM violate their own values in their battle for more power, so what makes you different from other parties? Nothing.

FPM has to return to its values, pledge its programm and this will make it win votes from all Lebanese, otherwise you are just doomed as other parties.

I had justified your alliance with Murr back in 2005, but I personally never voted Murr because I have common sense. This year you allied with SSNP, same thing, I did not vote SSNP because I use my common sense. I know both Murr and SSNP, I know what kind of values they have...I also know what kind of "Human Rights" Hizbullah has. This country cannot function if not all Lebanese are equal, are equally respected and valued.

For me it is not about power, it is about propagating and pledging DAWLET El 7AK!


This can be done without having a majority in the parliament, this is not a matter of seats, those are values, education to the people, alas!!! Too bad, it seems I dreamt about FPM making the change and this dream is a self-made illusion and far from reality.
Hope I am mistaken and FPM forges its values first and foremost.

Please read the second paragraph of the Forum Rules and User Agreements.
The posts here do not come from FPM.

regards

[somebody]

They should have the right to vote in the country where they reside
In this way, you will have fair conditions for all parties

[Orange Patriot]

LET US NOT JUMP TO SHALLOW CONCLUSIONS!

First of all, in PRINCIPLE, all diaspora should be allowed to vote, unconditionaly.

Second, this question of whether the diaspora should be allowed to vote is coming as a reaction to us losing these elections because of the diaspora that flew in. The facts are actually a lot deeper than that.
.
.
.
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.A vast majority of the diaspora that flew in to vote came thanks to the hariris' and saudis' money. It does not mean that the vast majority of diaspora are with march 14. What it means is that those that are WITH march 14 were given the MEANS to travel.

A vast majority of lebanese, whatever side they supported, did not have the means or time to travel, but one of the sides HAD THE MEANS TO CATER to them, while the other did not.

It was something we saw as a problem from before teh elections, but had no way of doing more than the best we could do and we also had no way of knowing how much of an impact it would be.

[Chaga]

Originally Posted by LebArmenian

Why will they choose my MPs for me ? are they the ones suffering from the bad economical situation ?

we witnessed what happens when they voted this sunday. they were brought to vote against us, us as in the lebanese who live in lebanon and suffer from the mafia ruling our beloved country for the last 20 years.

why will we accept them to decide on our behalf once again in 4 years ? thats suicidal !

what do you think comrades ?

So because expats voted against you, they should not be allowed to vote?

It is really really sad seeing what FPM has turned into.
We are expats for a reason, and whom we chose to vote for directly affects our will to come back home.
Today I see that you guys are doing the impossible for it to happen, so I see absolutely no reason to vote for you. (bear in mind, I did not even vote for the others, but if I had the opportunity to do it, I would vote white)
Expats are expats for many reasons: Economical, political, security etc... and I always thought that the prevalence was economical, until the last elections.
Where most of them voted for corruption over a state within a state.
It is a reality you cannot avoid anymore. Majority of Lebanese (in and out of Lebanon) are fed up with HA's tour de force, weapons and decisions of war and peace.
Stop supporting that, and you will be amazed at how many people will fall back under FPM's reform program. And I can assure I will be the first to do so.

[needfortruth]

I voted yes.

However, I hate to say "I told you so" since many FPMers worked hard for the election and don’t need to hear criticism this very moment. It is useful though to look back and analyze what may have been missed or what went wrong. I sent private messages a while ago to either Tayyar.org or one of the moderators asking to convey a message to FPM leadership warning them about fighting too hard too early for the right of the expats to vote.

The warning was that many expats left Lebanon under certain conditions and conceptions that today these conditions have changed and time turned these conceptions to misconceptions. The dilemma is that the expats were not brought up to date. And they would not know better unless someone educated them.

Living abroad and interacting with Lebanese overseas, I was surprised to find out that the Christians outside Lebanon were anti-Aoun in 2005 while the Christians in Lebanon in a huge majority voted for Aoun. Having discussions with these expats, I concluded that many of them left Lebanon as ‘Kataeb’, ‘Ahrar’, ‘LFers’, etc, and were still hanging on to their original identities not knowing that what they grew up on is no longer the reality of today. Those same individuals did a lot of damage, most of the time unknowingly, by preaching bad and expired propaganda to the ‘innocent’ Christians living overseas.

I warned FPM to send representatives to different countries to educate those expats. Maybe they have done so, or failed to do so. I don’t know either way, but for sure now we know the problem.

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

You bragged for months how Tashnag was bringing thousands of Armenians from overseas. Now you're playing the victim! Frankly the expats cost us a sweep of Maten!
Anyway, I think they should be able to vote in the embassies...

Stop proving our point ! Tashnag bragged but their numbers were reasonable 2,500 to Maten, and the others in Beirut 1 and Zahle. So there are around 6,000-7,000 more expats who came to vote in Maten. Even our highest expectations as opposition could not even come close to match half of what Hariri had hiding for us.

As for the question, I think they should vote in their countries. The simple reason is not because I believe they should have the right to but because Hariri will bring them here to vote anyway. So at least we might have higher chances of equal voting if all of them were allowed to vote outside.

[Shah Massoud]

Originally Posted by LebArmenian

Why will they choose my MPs for me ? are they the ones suffering from the bad economical situation ?

we witnessed what happens when they voted this sunday. they were brought to vote against us, us as in the lebanese who live in lebanon and suffer from the mafia ruling our beloved country for the last 20 years.

why will we accept them to decide on our behalf once again in 4 years ? thats suicidal !

what do you think comrades ?

I suggest to add the following to the poles:

adding 12 seats ( 6 w 6 ) in the parilament for the diaspora: the diaspora will vote in the lebanese embassies for these 12 seats that will be considered deputees like the rest of the 128 we already have- so in total we would have 140 deputees with 12 elected by the diaspora

[spacecreature]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

I was for the vote earlier now I'm against it. Lebanese residents only should vote. This means people must live in Lebanon for at least 3 month per year, so that we don’t have those yearly summer visitors deciding for the Lebanese or those who just remembered that they are Lebanese because its election day. Harsh... yes, but sincere.

Are US citizens of Irish descent allowed to vote in Ireland?

Make it 6! Generally most Lebanese who live abroad only want 3 months of tranquillity so they can come have fun go skiing or to the beach and pubs, and meet with friends and family. I know a lot of people like that! Some of them don't even care if you are occupied by Israel , Syria, or Iran, as long as it is quiet so they can come in peace. This is what I have been noticing. Although residing Lebanese also want peace obviously so they can go on with their daily lives, they ALSO have other daily worries that an ex-pat does not care about bcoz it doesn't affect him/her directly (although their relatives here could be suffering from them ). We have already established that your average Lebanese is selfish and only cares about matters that directly affcet him/her. Another problem is that when you are away you don't have the real picture of what is happening. A lot of people outside still watch LBC when they want to tune in to Lebanese news. Here, you have to watch ALL of them to get the real picture.

That said, it is still their right, as Lebanese to vote!

The proposed solution: How about we set a certain number of seats elected exclusively by ex-pats?

OK SORRY I WAS SO EXCITED I DIDN'T READ ALL THE POSTS LOL! It has already been proposed:)

[Shah Massoud]

Originally Posted by spacecreature

Make it 6! Generally most Lebanese who live abroad only want 3 months of tranquillity so they can come have fun go skiing or to the beach and pubs, and meet with friends and family. I know a lot of people like that! Some of them don't even care if you are occupied by Israel , Syria, or Iran, as long as it is quiet so they can come in peace. This is what I have been noticing. Although residing Lebanese also want peace obviously so they can go on with their daily lives, they ALSO have other daily worries that an ex-pat does not care about bcoz it doesn't affect him/her directly (although their relatives here could be suffering from them ). We have already established that your average Lebanese is selfish and only cares about matters that directly affcet him/her. Another problem is that when you are away you don't have the real picture of what is happening. A lot of people outside still watch LBC when they want to tune in to Lebanese news. Here, you have to watch ALL of them to get the real picture.

That said, it is still their right, as Lebanese to vote!

The proposed solution: How about we set a certain number of seats elected exclusively by ex-pats?

OK SORRY I WAS SO EXCITED I DIDN'T READ ALL THE POSTS LOL! It has already been proposed:)

as there is now seats for let's say zahle , metn , kesrwan...there would be new seats maybe the following would be a good example :

a seat for lebanese living in each of : France , australia , arab countries , USA , Canada , Europe ( else then france) , brazil , africa ,.... i guess it could be made in a way to have 12 new seats ( 6 christians and 6 muslim ) and toi be distributed on the diaspora's countries

[spacecreature]

For those who are calling us fascists now plz calm down all this is just for the sake of DISCUSSION!!! Haven't u ever been to school or written an essay???!!! One must try to see things from all levels and all sides (even the ones you don't like!), this is where the "these anti-these synthese" thingy came from.. so don't take the anti-these and run away with it just yet! mish ma3oul wlooooo.....