50 years passed by and still we did not get it

[KingNothing]

It is pretty unfortunate that both sides' tactics are reduced to fear mongering either from wilayat el fakih or tawteen since they really have nothing to offer and since all what they care About is their share of the cake.
We have Palestinian refugees living in our country in subhuman conditions with no hope for a future and no prospect. Whether u give them citizenships or not is irrelevant. What they need is their civil rights that has been denied by racist governments and hypocrites who talk about nothing but the Palestinian cause and how they are going to liberate Jerusalem while they are silent on the injustices poor children have to live. Those children could be each one of us.

[Anny]

Originally Posted by lebanon4ever

Do you know what baba Sanfour (Schtromph) used to say:"SAnfirou bi 7ayatikom"...

My friend ,what will you tell to your child 20/25 years later when he will come and tell you:Mom/Dad,i cannot find a job because XYZ is preferred over me since he is ......

As about reuniting lebanese,well it is a long gone dream...
I agree someone should be patriotic but someone should also be wise.Signals are given to us and still we are blind and saying:we want to fight!!we should be patriotic!!!blablabla...
Someone learns from his predecessors mistakes

First of all, our allies werent are allies, they were our ennemies (Bashir was allied with the ennemies wish was Israel) and the USA is still for me an ennemy since they want the twitwin. Lets put the hands with the ones that dont want the tetwin and wish is HA (for me they are the only one in Lebanon who logicly dont want the titwiin along with all the chrisians citizens. and what they have created with criminals like Geagea was to seperate the christians to give them a new fight wish is being against shias and seperations of sects again and a fight of sects. And the one who is succeding in helping this fight is our maronite patriarch and that is why he said such a comment before the election, why didnt he say : something against both Iran and Saudié? and why did he go visit the USA white house for a whole week if he wasnt for the seperation of christians against other sect in lebanon. He is lover of money along with all the M14 gang

[Unreal]

Originally Posted by lebanon4ever

50 years passed by and we did not get it yet.People,towteen is something that will happen sooner or later.

I dont agree with you because if they wanted realy el towteen they should do it when they gived everything to sirya in mores than 15years...
who where able to stop them ?non there is somehting else

Why do you think that they did not want a powerfull chrisitn leader?why do you think they assassinated BAchir in 1982,Dany chamoun in 1990,why do you think they overthrown GMA in 1990 and now..

all those events are not related killing bashir was because he tried to be smartter than Israel gov at the moment...
Killing Dany was from Ja3ja3 to have a over all control and no one had to care about Dany at the moment so they let him do it...
overthrown GMA it was the price that USA has to pays to have the support of assad regading Sadam at the moment...

Look after the end of the elections,how everybody reconciled and became like honeymooners.Simply because they want to aleniate chrisitians and turn them into small tribes which are fighting each other.

It's a today concerne when sirya had the control on lebanon there where no role for christians... GMA try to get it back and it's normal to those who get it to fight back.

Neither FM,nor PSP care about the debts such as we are doing.
Guys believe me,debts will only affect a minority of the lebanese people since this minority have their own way of living style and cannot afford to live in miserable circumstances.
By putting pressures on this minority,it will leave sooner or later.That's why,it is their benefits to keep the people who brought debts into power.
So let us not fool themselves and say we will change and make reforms,the plan is already done and it is a matter of time (may be 10-15-30 years) before the settlement will be finalized.
And believe me,there is nothing we can do in this regards.

I dont knowperhaps you are right but for me there is no interrest for US to solve the Israel Problem.
US supports blindly Isreal but when you look closer you will find that US tries it's best to keep Israel in the same place not letting them takeover arabe.
if you see what happened in gaza when they closed all colonies...
there is something different it seems to me like US do not want the war to end...
dont ask me why but from the ground they work on it like hat.
even when you look in the past US open dors for Bashir and this action pushed bashir to think that he can make his way without the approval of Israel and you know the end of it...

There is something else then towteen played out there...

[Anny]

Originally Posted by KingNothing

It is pretty unfortunate that both sides' tactics are reduced to fear mongering either from wilayat el fakih or tawteen since they really have nothing to offer and since all what they care About is their share of the cake.
We have Palestinian refugees living in our country in subhuman conditions with no hope for a future and no prospect. Whether u give them citizenships or not is irrelevant. What they need is their civil rights that has been denied by racist governments and hypocrites who talk about nothing but the Palestinian cause and how they are going to liberate Jerusalem while they are silent on the injustices poor children have to live. Those children could be each one of us.

I so much agree with you on that but instead of putting money into their camps in Lebanon and send them weapons to fight themselves and us, this money could send them to other countries and built them beautiful life outside our country by being immigrants but not in bad conditions like they are in our country. The most hypocrite people are the one who are giving them money and weapons to kill themselves and that is USA Saudié

[Anny]

Originally Posted by Unreal

I dont agree with you because if they wanted realy el towteen they should do it when they gived everything to sirya in mores than 15years...
who where able to stop them ?non there is somehting else


all those events are not related killing bashir was because he tried to be smartter than Israel gov at the moment...
Killing Dany was from Ja3ja3 to have a over all control and no one had to care about Dany at the moment so they let him do it...
overthrown GMA it was the price that USA has to pays to have the support of assad regading Sadam at the moment...


It's a today concerne when sirya had the control on lebanon there where no role for christians... GMA try to get it back and it's normal to those who get it to fight back.



I dont knowperhaps you are right but for me there is no interrest for US to solve the Israel Problem.
US supports blindly Isreal but when you look closer you will find that US tries it's best to keep Israel in the same place not letting them takeover arabe.
if you see what happened in gaza when they closed all colonies...
there is something different it seems to me like US do not want the war to end...
dont ask me why but from the ground they work on it like hat.
even when you look in the past US open dors for Bashir and this action pushed bashir to think that he can make his way without the approval of Israel and you know the end of it...

There is something else then towteen played out there...

Its the control over a preminium ressource wish is water and the deals with Syria and Saudi is maybe for the Lebanon water too.

[KingNothing]

I think we are being overtaken by this grandeur delusion about how important and great we are. We are a third world country that is uncapable of forcing it's citizens to stop at a red light while they are driving. You wanna said Palestinians somewhere else? You think countries are standing in line to take 400 k refugees. And even if that is true you are willing to allow the suffering to go on in the meantime? Civil rights do not cost you any money!!!
A bit of touch with reality does not hurt neither.

[LebanonUSA]

Originally Posted by lebanon4ever

I will surely get one soon.Unfortunately,i was hoping for something.However it wont be realized.So eventhough,I will manage to have a good life (may be towtween wont happen as I am alive),however it will happen during my kids or grandsons era and i don't want to drag them into misery.

You're wrong. It's happening a lot sooner than you think. And yes, it is a fact, it is going to happen whether you like it or not. My aunt's husband is a Palestinian and works in UNRWA in Beirut Lebanon and they are in the final stages already. Tawteen is happening LONG before 2012. Every Palestinian household is getting between $20K and $40K (not person, household or family). Lebanon is not getting its debt written off as some of you feel is going to happen but will get money instead (i.e., Hariri Corp will ye2erto el masari and leave you to pay the debt).

The LF are forming a Christian Block in parliament so that when the moment of truth comes, they will split, and declare "el sharqiyyi" khat ahmar and push for their agenda: taqseem.

Unfortunately for them, they lost big time in what would be the Christian Lebanon where they would only have reps from Bcharre, Batroun and Ashrafieh, while Aoun's coalition managed to sweep Zgharta, Jbeil, Keserouan, Metn, Baabda. Koura is not known who would win it, since the Sunni vote in Koura was enough to tilt the balance in their favor. The question is what would happen to Zahle and Jezzine? Most probably Zahle and its Christian surroundings would be part of the new ministate, which also means a loss to the LF since the Zahle Christians voted for Skaff. Jezzine's situation is a bit more difficult since it is detached from the main Christian homeland.

This is not a worst case scenario by the way...

[Anny]

Originally Posted by KingNothing

I think we are being overtaken by this grandeur delusion about how important and great we are. We are a third world country that is uncapable of forcing it's citizens to stop at a red light while they are driving. You wanna said Palestinians somewhere else? You think countries are standing in line to take 400 k refugees. And even if that is true you are willing to allow the suffering to go on in the meantime? Civil rights do not cost you any money!!!
A bit of touch with reality does not hurt neither.

So what are you saying is lets neutralize the palestinians and create a new problem by making another population that means lebanese replace that problem? I dont think all the people will give up that easily like you are doing and I think Iran and Syria is not their priority to settle up a saudi power in Lebanon seriously.

[Anny]

Originally Posted by LebanonUSA

You're wrong. It's happening a lot sooner than you think. And yes, it is a fact, it is going to happen whether you like it or not. My aunt's husband is a Palestinian and works in UNRWA in Beirut Lebanon and they are in the final stages already. Tawteen is happening LONG before 2012. Every Palestinian household is getting between $20K and $40K (not person, household or family). Lebanon is not getting its debt written off as some of you feel is going to happen but will get money instead (i.e., Hariri Corp will ye2erto el masari and leave you to pay the debt).

The LF are forming a Christian Block in parliament so that when the moment of truth comes, they will split, and declare "el sharqiyyi" khat ahmar and push for their agenda: taqseem.

Unfortunately for them, they lost big time in what would be the Christian Lebanon where they would only have reps from Bcharre, Batroun and Ashrafieh, while Aoun's coalition managed to sweep Zgharta, Jbeil, Keserouan, Metn, Baabda. Koura is not known who would win it, since the Sunni vote in Koura was enough to tilt the balance in their favor. The question is what would happen to Zahle and Jezzine? Most probably Zahle and its Christian surroundings would be part of the new ministate, which also means a loss to the LF since the Zahle Christians voted for Skaff. Jezzine's situation is a bit more difficult since it is detached from the main Christian homeland.

This is not a worst case scenario by the way...

Why didnt you mention that before the elections? What about the Kataeb, who are they representing... Do you think there is an undertable deal between christians leaders? what will happen to the christians in Lebanon and what about HA in this? What are their positions? I like the fact that people in the internal are begining to talk about what is really going on the internal. We should have more representative in the UN, and in the governement.

[LebanonUSA]

Originally Posted by Unreal

I dont agree with you because if they wanted realy el towteen they should do it when they gived everything to sirya in mores than 15years...
who where able to stop them ?non there is somehting else

When the Syrians were occupying Lebanon, the Israeli Palestinian peace process was not as advanced as it is today. Now both the Americans and the Israelis are talking about a two state solution, ya3ni they are recognizing for the first time the need to create a Palestinian state, when it used to be a big no no in the past.

Saddam Hussein in the mid 1990s offered to repatriate all the Palestinian refugees to Iraq. Syrians refused because didn't want to lose the Palestinian refugee paper, and their bed buddy Rafiq Hariri refused as well because, obviously he wanted to have them stay in Lebanon to reinforce the Sunni population.