3 months and still no government

[jamez29]

Originally Posted by Venom

We want war (knowing it will last 3 hours ;)

3 hours ?
lol we must call you the new general

[nuclearcat]

Originally Posted by NEVER_BACK_DOWN

Don't forget to blame GMA for the 51 billions dollars dept or better then that don't forget to blame GMA why there is no life on Mars yet.

TFEH

Did you think that government not formed because other parties scared from FPM shakeups that Bassil made in telecom? And they are scared how ministries will be managed.

You will say - he fight with corruption and illegals, he is sooo good. Thats what i see mostly on this forum.
I will say - give way for legal people to work first. Current investigation about Barouk case that costed us a lot of nerves, shows finally, that in Ogero was a persons who was blocking our legal backbone requests from 2005. I cannot disclose investigation details, except that all suspects is in jail, and my boss finally released after investigation, and he is almost clear now. And even Bassil and Aoun saying strong words about spying case and etc, i can say from my info - this link made by few "commercial" people, who just used technical weakness of government authorities and strong internet hunger created by government. Link was revealed by their competitor or fired employee (i dont have exact details), and competitor did their best to make case public on media, so noone can close it on "low levels" by bribes. If it was another politic - he will do same show-off on TV and try to get honors on TV, puffing out his cheeks, accusing opposing party. But it is just usual criminal case.

Bassil did nothing to remove corruption, because it is difficult job. Bassil also did nothing to improve country internet, but promissed a lot (remember 20x faster internet? where is it?). But he did easiest, except Barouk link, there was dozens of other links stopped, that belongs to many other ISP's, they was pointed to Syria, Cyprus, Turkey and etc. They was built not because they are cheaper or etc. Because ISP's want to survive. Country in Internet HUNGER.

Did this help moneywise for government funds collection? NO, same. Because Ogero still didn't give bandwidth for ISP's.
Did it help people? IN OPPOSITE! Internet become worse. Because there is lack of bandwidth now.
Did it help ISP's? NO. They won't invest to unstable market.
If you do manual ministry management (catching invididuals or companies and doing show-off on TV) - it is best for PR and elections (if people dumb... but they was not), it is harmful generally for this sector. Best thing for ministry - reforms. They are painful, harm in short terms PR, but if people smart - they will understand and support them.

Another example. OTV perfect example of FPM style management. It is small future of your country if this party will get clear win.
Relative will take key position and grab the money (so in case of serious failure , "head of party" hands will be clean, and he will fire him, and say "Ohhh bad boy").
OTV created on public funds. But funds managed by "family". OTV performs BAD, as i see in nearby threads. Everybody agrees with that. What is done to fix that? Nothing. Sure, because there is "no talented people between hundreds of thousands FPM people, other than Aoun relatives to take key positions". I don't believe in that, sorry. It is matter of style of business.
I dont say FPM is worse than other politics, but they are same. And when someone from FPM says about fight with feudalism he must start from himself.


P.S. Just for info:
51 billions debt kept MOSTLY by lebanese banks.
Gross debt in 2004 for example was 34B. Debt to commercial banks 16B. Major one... isn't it? Others much less than this. Look around. Watch for what most of big loans taken (tip: ferrari, bmw, rolex, vertu). People owe the world, not government. Not much export and technologies, but a lot of "consumerism".

[nuclearcat]

Originally Posted by baloo

If Aoun's party is not a major party ( as you mentioned above) why Hariri cares about what Aoun is asking ? let him form the government without Aoun ..why give a *$*t about Bassil and Aoun?!

Because such attitude will lead to civil war.

[Shuyu3i]

Its either they give GMA what he wants or no government simple as that!! Hariri is way over his head. No to war. We will keep this stalemate going just how they did in voting the president. We had no president for 6 months its the PM turn

[Lallous]

Originally Posted by nuclearcat

Did you think that government not formed because other parties scared from FPM shakeups that Bassil made in telecom? And they are scared how ministries will be managed.

You will say - he fight with corruption and illegals, he is sooo good. Thats what i see mostly on this forum.
I will say - give way for legal people to work first. Current investigation about Barouk case that costed us a lot of nerves, shows finally, that in Ogero was a persons who was blocking our legal backbone requests from 2005. I cannot disclose investigation details, except that all suspects is in jail, and my boss finally released after investigation, and he is almost clear now. And even Bassil and Aoun saying strong words about spying case and etc, i can say from my info - this link made by few "commercial" people, who just used technical weakness of government authorities and strong internet hunger created by government. Link was revealed by their competitor or fired employee (i dont have exact details), and competitor did their best to make case public on media, so noone can close it on "low levels" by bribes. If it was another politic - he will do same show-off on TV and try to get honors on TV, puffing out his cheeks, accusing opposing party. But it is just usual criminal case.

Maybe some clarity. I didn't get exactly what you meant.

Bassil did nothing to remove corruption, because it is difficult job. Bassil also did nothing to improve country internet, but promissed a lot (remember 20x faster internet? where is it?). But he did easiest, except Barouk link, there was dozens of other links stopped, that belongs to many other ISP's, they was pointed to Syria, Cyprus, Turkey and etc. They was built not because they are cheaper or etc. Because ISP's want to survive. Country in Internet HUNGER.

Did this help moneywise for government funds collection? NO, same. Because Ogero still didn't give bandwidth for ISP's.
Did it help people? IN OPPOSITE! Internet become worse. Because there is lack of bandwidth now.
Did it help ISP's? NO. They won't invest to unstable market.

Before we can even discuss Gibran's assessment, can you agree with the premises :
1. Bassil had to cope with 20 years of corruption, inefficiency, lack of vision, etc ?
2. Based on 1, can you hold Bassil accountable based on his acts within one year using the benchmark of the past ministers that came before him for the last 20 years ?

You could possibly add the partisanship of the other camp that keeps blocking any step made by Bassil, which is a major one too.

If you can't agree to the 2 points above, there is no need to continue our discussion.

He did nothing to corruption :

Dude, as a foreigner, I doubt you are even embedded by the Lebanese culture and so you could possibly know how the corruption is rooted in it.

13 0000 eavesdrops ? Doesn't that ring a bell ? You know what that represents in terms of intelligence, industrial secrets, personal interests, etc ?

Abolishing VIP numbers ? As a taxpayer, how would you feel that you have a whole bunch of corrupt gang not paying a penny meanwhile you pay the highest rates of telecomms in the world ? No need to mention, the decrease in the rates and the extra revenues made by the ministry.

Platinum, golden and silver numbers. These numbers were attributed and sold in the black market instead of the ministry gaining extra income of it.

I could keep going on. A ministry of telecomms doesn't revolve around Internet solely. You are talking about a country or rather a farm that doesn't 24/7 electricity and where phone lines weren't even accessible in terms of costs and logistics to a wide part of the population. You think it's realistic that you could make Internet 20x faster in these poor conditions and the limited time frame, which I doubt he said, and add to that all the political unwilling to make things better in order to privatize the sector ? (A small one for you : Marwan Hmadeh's son getting a DSL contract without bidding, what do you call that ?)

Your example you spoke about is simply incoherent. You say you want to eradicate corruption, yet you are willing to equate private interests of ISPs to abuse the system just because there is no legal alternative ?

If you do manual ministry management (catching invididuals or companies and doing show-off on TV) - it is best for PR and elections (if people dumb... but they was not), it is harmful generally for this sector. Best thing for ministry - reforms. They are painful, harm in short terms PR, but if people smart - they will understand and support them.

Whatever. What do you call all the listed above if it's not change and reform in the style of governance ? Can you hold Bassil accountable as I said earlier on his acts compared with the benchmark of the past ministers' actions, limited time frame and the political unwilling opposing him ?

Another example. OTV perfect example of FPM style management. It is small future of your country if this party will get clear win.
Relative will take key position and grab the money (so in case of serious failure , "head of party" hands will be clean, and he will fire him, and say "Ohhh bad boy").
OTV created on public funds. But funds managed by "family". OTV performs BAD, as i see in nearby threads. Everybody agrees with that. What is done to fix that? Nothing. Sure, because there is "no talented people between hundreds of thousands FPM people, other than Aoun relatives to take key positions". I don't believe in that, sorry. It is matter of style of business.
I dont say FPM is worse than other politics, but they are same. And when someone from FPM says about fight with feudalism he must start from himself.

That is just blind hate. I won't even bother answering. What does that has to do with Bassil anyways? OTV is a private company that is accountable to its shareholders. A ministry is a public institution accountable to the citizens and residents.

P.S. Just for info:
51 billions debt kept MOSTLY by lebanese banks.
Gross debt in 2004 for example was 34B. Debt to commercial banks 16B. Major one... isn't it? Others much less than this. Look around. Watch for what most of big loans taken (tip: ferrari, bmw, rolex, vertu). People owe the world, not government. Not much export and technologies, but a lot of "consumerism".

Do you even know what gross PUBLIC debt means ? What does ferrari, bmw, rolex have anything to do with government ?
Just for info :
Was it FPM or Gebran that sold Lebanese saving bonds with 41% as a return on investment to its proper banks ? Or was it Hariri ?

[Venom]

Originally Posted by jamez29

3 hours ?
lol we must call you the new general

2 years of fighting, what 3 hours?

2 years of fighting the militias and Syrians.......... 3 hours happened only once in Lebanon, May 7 2008.

[joe tayyar]

Originally Posted by Venom

2 years of fighting, what 3 hours?

2 years of fighting the militias and Syrians.......... 3 hours happened only once in Lebanon, May 7 2008.

It seems it will happen again. Coz el game3a mish 3am yifhamo.

[elador]

Originally Posted by nuclearcat

I really hate to comment on politics, but.

As INDEPENDENT person (i hate all politics), my IMHO, Aoun is ruining country.
He is stubborn to get most sweet seat (about MONEY and control), telecom, while his party is not major party who win elections and not major party who is in alliance. He want to put his relative to such honey position with silly reasons that have nothing to do with care about his country and his people. It is care about his party (small group of people) interests only. If he is worried about country lines tapping - well politicians can EASILY encrypt their talks. People? Well, people wont loose anything if they are tapped. If it was done before, it wont hurt much later. But till next elections he can show and improve other areas where he can get minister seats. But... money, money, money. He want telecom or DIE ALL. Nice position.

He will lead country to war, civil or with Israel, because there is no control, now law making, nothing. Recent rocket launches really makes me scared that it will happen. And Israel is very happy seems that country divided and cannot stand together. Few month more, and if they enter to country, some sides most probably will become Israel friends just to kill other Lebanese opponents. It is best dream for Israel, to clean territory by dividing lebanese people and making them fight one to each other.

BOTH parties too much concerned about their sectarianism and people should say NO to all existing politics who practice sects interests, and elect people who is away from religion and sects and care about SUCCESS of WHOLE country.
Politics who is minority should take majority decisions and try to find solution. For now i see:
Hariri - Let's form government
Aoun - BASSIL - TELECOM!
Hariri - We can't accept that
Aoun - BASSIL - TELECOM!
Hariri - Let's try this seats
Aoun - BASSIL - TELECOM!
Hariri - here is my complete proposal, this here, those here, and this for president
Aoun - BASSIL - TELECOM!
Hariri - #(*$&#$(#*$&^!!! I resign.

Bas ktir independant enta!! ma bi sir heik, khod maw2af!! you are being more independant than Michel Murr!!!

[baloo]

Originally Posted by nuclearcat

Because such attitude will lead to civil war.

Civil war ? aha, and between who and who ? care to elaborate please I am so interested !

[nuclearcat]

Originally Posted by Lallous

Dude, as a foreigner, I doubt you are even embedded by the Lebanese culture and so you could possibly know how the corruption is rooted in it.

Bulgaria, for example, managed to remove corruption in few years significantly. Actually key-point was just few month. Issue not in people, issue not in years, issue in talented people elected in government.
Read here as example their telecom improvements:
Bulgaria - Telecommunication Regulation & Liberalization
Keypoint - eliminate government monopoly. Bassil did even in opposite, he ruined all independent links of ISP's. (Except Barouk, IF Barouk was to Israel, it has to be shut down, and thats right)

13 0000 eavesdrops ? Doesn't that ring a bell ? You know what that represents in terms of intelligence, industrial secrets, personal interests, etc ?

Personally i don't care about such things. It is well known practice to not give a trust for public communication networks. If i have secrets - i have PGP, internal PBX with SIP over TLS for that. Noone can tap them. And another thing, most of countries implement officially automatic internet/telephone tapping systems. USA - CALEA, Russia - SORM, and etc.
Lebanon lacking proper laws and regulations that will block unauthorized tapping, and in same time sometimes government cannot tap terrorist communications because of same lack of proper modern laws.

Abolishing VIP numbers ? As a taxpayer, how would you feel that you have a whole bunch of corrupt gang not paying a penny meanwhile you pay the highest rates of telecomms in the world ? No need to mention, the decrease in the rates and the extra revenues made by the ministry.

As a telecom engineer, i know that disaster situation with license regulations, government monopoly - main reason of high prices. When Gebran dropped few cents from prices _MANUALLY_, and it seems buy many people votes. Thats sad. To drop prices significantly automatically minister should implement a lot of reforms, that will refresh competition in the market. Can exist competition between two pockets (Alfa and MTC) of one owner(government)? No.
Also he drop prices without significant network modernization (implementing untested 2.75G from Motorola, for example is controversial, it is not giving gain in voice network capacity). As result it leads to network instability. It is really hassle now to call anywhere.

Platinum, golden and silver numbers. These numbers were attributed and sold in the black market instead of the ministry gaining extra income of it.

It is PEANUTS and drops in the sea, one time profit. But good PR.

I could keep going on. A ministry of telecomms doesn't revolve around Internet solely. You are talking about a country or rather a farm that doesn't 24/7 electricity and where phone lines weren't even accessible in terms of costs and logistics to a wide part of the population. You think it's realistic that you could make Internet 20x faster in these poor conditions and the limited time frame, which I doubt he said, and add to that all the political unwilling to make things better in order to privatize the sector ? (A small one for you : Marwan Hmadeh's son getting a DSL contract without bidding, what do you call that ?)

All obstructions here is more in mind, than in reality. Key issue is lack of regulations. For example missing rules how ISP can lay fiber cable, how it will be protected by government, and who will own it, how rent fees will be paid to municipalities, and you will see whole Lebanon covered by fiber.

Whatever. What do you call all the listed above if it's not change and reform in the style of governance ? Can you hold Bassil accountable as I said earlier on his acts compared with the benchmark of the past ministers' actions, limited time frame and the political unwilling opposing him ?

Sure, sure. I see opposition very friendly to other side of government, and helping them to work with all their heart. :-) Both sides is idiots and ruining country in their stubbornness.
Previous minister at least didn't ruin half of industry.

That is just blind hate. I won't even bother answering. What does that has to do with Bassil anyways? OTV is a private company that is accountable to its shareholders. A ministry is a public institution accountable to the citizens and residents.

It is example of "FPM-style" management. Future of your country in small scale.