Israeli Movie: "Waltz with Bashir"

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

What are you talking about? have you never watched "Khalli balak min zouzou" ?

No, but I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Honestly, I wish that the Middle East had the intellectual freedom of Israel. I only wish that Arab movies could be made like Waltz With Bashir and deal with the same subject matter because it is something that the Arab world needs to see.

Instead, Arab TV is soap operas, artificial girls prancing around in music videos, and game shows. Hell, the same guy stars in every movie ever made in Egyptian cinema.

What are you talking about? have you never watched "Khalli balak min zouzou" ?

On a more serious not you ought to see this movie, or this. Not all Arabic movies are bad.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

What are you talking about? have you never watched "Khalli balak min zouzou" ?

On a more serious not you ought to see this movie, or this. Not all Arabic movies are bad.

The Battle of Algiers wasn't made by Arabs and I have never heard of the other movie but I will check it out.

This still does not point to intellectual freedom in the Arab world. Do you actually believe that a Jordanian could make a movie about Black September and release it in Jordan? Or an Iraqi under Saddam that could release a movie about the gassing of Kurds?

All of this censorship has kept Arabs largely culturally immature in my opinion. There's a reason why the Arabs have fallen behind the West and the East and the problem lies in their leadership. The Lebanese and the Palestinians are the only people in the Middle East who can pridefully acknowledge that they are making the transition to creating a free society. The Iraqis are slowly reverting back to autocratic domination.

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by Zayn

The Battle of Algiers wasn't made by Arabs and I have never heard of the other movie but I will check it out.

This still does not point to intellectual freedom in the Arab world. Do you actually believe that a Jordanian could make a movie about Black September and release it in Jordan? Or an Iraqi under Saddam that could release a movie about the gassing of Kurds?

All of this censorship has kept Arabs largely culturally immature in my opinion. There's a reason why the Arabs have fallen behind the West and the East and the problem lies in their leadership. The Lebanese and the Palestinians are the only people in the Middle East who can pridefully acknowledge that they are making the transition to creating a free society. The Iraqis are slowly reverting back to autocratic domination.

In societies where issues are not discussed you wouldn't see movies discussing those issues. It is not the egyptians who do not want to make movies about this or that, it is their leaderships who does not let them.
Don't blame the culture, blame their dictators, Egyptians were never given the chance to build a democracy, the only arabs who were given a chance are the Lebanese, and so far they have blown it up.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

In societies where issues are not discussed you wouldn't see movies discussing those issues. It is not the egyptians who do not want to make movies about this or that, it is their leaderships who does not let them.
Don't blame the culture, blame their dictators, Egyptians were never given the chance to build a democracy, the only arabs who were given a chance are the Lebanese, and so far they have blown it up.

I clearly said that the Arab leadership is to blame for the stunted growth of Arab culture. For thousands of years, the people of the Middle East were the world's greatest philosophers, artists, and thinkers. I don't think it is a mere coincidence that all three of the world's major religions were founded in basically the same area.

And let's not forget about the Palestinians who also had the Arab world's first free elections, but it was the Israelis and the West who destroyed it, not the Palestinians themselves.

I have largely given up on the rest of the Arab world, but I am confident that so long as the Lebanese and Palestinians keep fighting for freedom, they will eventually create nations that will be the pride of not just the Arab world, but the entire developing world in general.

[moughtarib]

You may think of 'West Beirut' as a good movie that 'deals' with our issues. I also heard that 'Semaan Bil Day3a' is another good societal movie about Village vs City life and its impact on sustainability outside the cities. You have Caramel which deals nicely with Women and their 'given' roles in society.

And if you're too bored, watch Braveheart and imagine Mel Gibson is SHN and lord Bryan who hands William Wallace to the English is ? :-)

[False Morel]

Originally Posted by moughtarib

Bashir lovers don't watch it. It will ruin your given dogmas.

Oh, so that's why all my Christian Lebanese friends are rating the movie negatively by particularly labeling it as a stupid biased movie while my other fellow Muslim ones praising it by stressing on the Phalangists' mentioning and enthusiastically publicizing the movie despite the fact it being an Israeli production!

Anyway, as it seems the movie makes up a good piece of work, so it should be worth watching.

[moughtarib]

Originally Posted by False Morel

Oh, so that's why all my Christian Lebanese friends are rating the movie negatively by particularly labeling it as a stupid biased movie while my other fellow Muslim ones praising it by stressing on the Phalangists' mentioning and enthusiastically publicizing the movie despite the fact it being an Israeli production!

Anyway, as it seems the movie makes up a good piece of work, so it should be worth watching.

Christians in the Lebanese community find it difficult to believe or acknowledge that people in some parties bellonging to their sect, whether you support them or not, were capable of doing such things to other humans.

Muslims in the Lebanese community want everyone to know, especially christians, that its not just elements in their sect who are bloody/terrorist/... but also their 'brothers' have done some of the ugliest things too.

Its more a sociological problem than a political divide.

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by moughtarib

Christians in the Lebanese community find it difficult to believe or acknowledge that people in some parties bellonging to their sect, whether you support them or not, were capable of doing such things to other humans.

Muslims in the Lebanese community want everyone to know, especially christians, that its not just elements in their sect who are bloody/terrorist/... but also their 'brothers' have done some of the ugliest things too.

Its more a sociological problem than a political divide.

Very good point. People have to stop idealizing Bashir and his followers. They are responsible of as much massacres, if not more, as the Left and the Palestinians.

While this has very rarely been claimed, this movie is here to remind us of this.

I never liked Bashir, and probably never will. But at the end of his life, he made a very good speech about a people's capability of learning from their mistakes! If you guys love Bashir so much, perhaps it is worth following him when he was right... Not only when he was wrong!

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by False Morel

Oh, so that's why all my Christian Lebanese friends are rating the movie negatively by particularly labeling it as a stupid biased movie while my other fellow Muslim ones praising it by stressing on the Phalangists' mentioning and enthusiastically publicizing the movie despite the fact it being an Israeli production!

Anyway, as it seems the movie makes up a good piece of work, so it should be worth watching.

I see no way a movie can be biased when it's documenting real events.

The Phalangists were specialists in the murdering of unarmed people. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody.