Quote:
Originally Posted by amalhope  Kalam El Nas
In my opinion, the most important points of the interview and research findings are:
-Only 28% of today's Lebanese population is genetically Phoenician. Furthermore, significant percentages of today's inhabitants of Morocco, Syria, Tunisia, Malta, Cyprus, Spain, and Italy have Phoenician genetic identifiers.
-The Phoenician 28% of today's Lebanese population are almost equally distributed amongst Lebanon's religious sects.
-Marcel Ghanem is not Phoenician, nor are any of the "Kalam El Nas" crew members who were tested.
-Marcel Ghanem's reaction to his DNA test results reflects his hierarchical and plain silly way of thinking.
-This was one of the best episodes of "Kalam El Nas" because something tangible and intelligible, for a change, was said. |
Plain wrong or misleading at best on all first 3 counts. I suggest you read the articles, and if the authors have been misleading, do a bit of reading on the issue, the net's got plenty of resources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalzi Beautiful study.
It's great that we have DNA tests. 'Habalism' can be exposed. The Phoenician habal was politically created, they even tried to convince the people that they speak "Lebanese"  .
Truth is that we're a mix, religions changed due to choices or conquests. :D Hail science for exposing Lebanese ignorance. I want a test!
I like these threads... |
What 'habalism' are you talking about?
Did you bother to read the first article published? Do you know what is the prevalence of other markers in Lebanon? Or what findings are in other countries?
You're the one who drew the conclusion that phoenician was politcally created and not true based on genetic evidence. I certainly wouldn't apply the same standard either way myself, but if you had looked closer at this, you'd realize that this is an argument that can be miss-used for pro-phoenician thinkers, not the other way round. I'll share some more on this later perhaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalzi The Canaanites ARE the Phoenicians; the name Phoenician was given to the Canaanites by others ;) |
'Canaanite' and 'Phoenician' are just as much products of ancient people's writings as anything. The term 'Phoenicia' is used by scholars to differentiate the Bronze age from the Iron age in the region(about 1200BC), although the term had been in use far before then. While they do represent the same people, some debate still exists as to Phoenician refering to a smaller region than that of the Caananites. Anyway, this issue is pointless in the argument you might be making. People back then identified themselves not as from 'Phoenicia' or from 'Canaan', but from the city-state they belonged to, ex: 'Saul from Tyre'. The modern day concept of a nation did not exist back then.
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Originally Posted by BOILER What's the meaning of Arab world, and Arab people? |
A question very much in its place. Unfortunately people today, especially the Lebanese, are just as likely to follow shallow slogans and fabricated tales as they were decades ago. Its no surprise there is little archives in our libraries on our ancient history, at least those accessible to the public or students, and very few bother to read original sources, or even proper modern ones. Heck one university in Germany has entire series of shelves on Phoenician history and archeology...we have...a couple of books!
Unfortunately much of the Phoenician works and history was stored on papyrus, which degraded easily with the times, and most of what is known today about them is from their enemies and competitors...still they have left a great legacy of achievement and invention which others tried to take credit for, in particular after the Punic wars. Still, a great lot of information has been uncovered, and if we ever have a serious state one day, there is no doubt much more still shall be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena can i ask a question here...
what difference would it make if the lebanese were phoenicians, arabs, japanese or whatever... would it change what they are now?
all this talk about the origin of the race blabla.. is racist... get over it!! |
No difference whatsoever, except to those shallow enough who have yet to understand the meaning of identity. It's tiring to see Lebanese still searching for an identity. Some call themselves 'Phoenician' - historically inaccurate since they are 'Lebanese', just as inaccurate as an Italian calling himself a Roman. Then there are others who call themselves 'Arab' in a meaning to challenge the 'Phoenician', or otherwise 'non-Phoenician', which is again the other side of the spectrum of ignorance.
The truth is we are Lebanese, who have a past Phoenician heritage, which incidentally, we should be proud of! In case anyone's still doubting, you can be both Phoenician and Arab...it's not an either/or case!
Well, just trying to nip this thread in the bud! Gotta rush!
Cheers!
Who are the Lebanese? -- Marcel Ghanem is NOT Phoenician. -
4th November 2008
