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Default The logic behind "arabic numbers" - 26th June 2008

Why1means"one"and2 means"two"? interesting

Something for the brain……
Interesting…....

The numbers we all use (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.) are known as "arabic" numbers to distinguish them from the"Roman Numerals" (I, II, III, IV, V, VI, etc). Actually thearabspopularized these numbers but they were originally used by the early phonecian traders to count and keep track of their trading accounts.
Have you ever thought why........1 means "one", and 2 means "two"? The roman numerals are easy to understand but what was the logic behind the Phoenician numbers?

It's all about angles!
It's the number of angles. If one writes the numbers down (see below) on a piece of paper in their older forms, one quickly sees why. I have marked the angles with "o"s.
No1 has oneangle.
No
2 has twoangles.
No
3 has threeangles.
etc
.
and "O" has no angles




Interesting, isn't it?
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Default 26th June 2008

Interesting, except that the numbers have been doctored in a way to fit the theory:

Examples:

A normal 9 should have 6 angles or

If the line at the base of 7 is applied to 1, then you'll have 3 angles
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Default 26th June 2008

the numbers as we know them have slightly changed. The angle theory is actually correct. Was it Phoenecians who came up with it?? We Lebanese like to attribute all the major achievements in the old world to our "supposed-to-be" ancestors! We somehow have an inferiority complex and treat that by saying phoencians were super people!
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Default 26th June 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abou J View Post
Interesting, except that the numbers have been doctored in a way to fit the theory:

Examples:

A normal 9 should have 6 angles or

If the line at the base of 7 is applied to 1, then you'll have 3 angles
Let me disagree with you, the way lebgeneral wrote the numbers is the way they used to be written when they were created, and let me add something, im sure lebgeneral knows it if he got to know this.

At first there was no letters, numbers used to be used for communication, yes numbers came first and then letters came, but they did not come out of nowhere, their base was the numbers, if you do a small research on the phoenician alphabet you find that they're so much like these numbers above, and they're based on angles too.

Ps: (just for the record) the number 0 was created hundreds of years AFTER the other numbers and the letters.
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Default 27th June 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by lebgeneral View Post
Why1means"one"and2 means"two"? interesting

Something for the brain……
Interesting…....

The numbers we all use (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.) are known as "arabic" numbers to distinguish them from the"Roman Numerals" (I, II, III, IV, V, VI, etc). Actually thearabspopularized these numbers but they were originally used by the early phonecian traders to count and keep track of their trading accounts.
Have you ever thought why........1 means "one", and 2 means "two"? The roman numerals are easy to understand but what was the logic behind the Phoenician numbers?

It's all about angles!
It's the number of angles. If one writes the numbers down (see below) on a piece of paper in their older forms, one quickly sees why. I have marked the angles with "o"s.
No1 has oneangle.
No
2 has twoangles.
No
3 has threeangles.
etc
.
and "O" has no angles




Interesting, isn't it?

Makes no sense unless you have more explanation .. Why angels ? And what have angels to do with trade ? Were angels existed at that time ?

Salam
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Default 27th June 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layyouss View Post
Let me disagree with you, the way lebgeneral wrote the numbers is the way they used to be written when they were created, and let me add something, im sure lebgeneral knows it if he got to know this.

At first there was no letters, numbers used to be used for communication, yes numbers came first and then letters came, but they did not come out of nowhere, their base was the numbers, if you do a small research on the phoenician alphabet you find that they're so much like these numbers above, and they're based on angles too.

Ps: (just for the record) the number 0 was created hundreds of years AFTER the other numbers and the letters.
The numbers were not created that way to begin with!

This angles explanation is an ad hoc, and I agree with Abou J that it was doctored.

The modern day arabic numerals evolved from the Brahmi Numerals:



You can see that 1 was meant to be one stroke, 2 with two strokes, 3 with 3 strokes... it is just with time, because you want to write number 3 faster, that the strokes become attached. As for the rest of the numbers, I don't see any further explanation other than being trivial.
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Default 27th June 2008

Numerals Phoenician numerals are built up from four elements in combination 6, 7, 8 and 11. Like the letters, Phoenician numbers are written from right to left means 143 (100 + 20 + 20 + 1 + 1 + 1). The numbers between one and 9 were written down as combinations of lines specifically I, II, III for the first three numbers but anything between 4 and 9 were combinations sets of III and II or III and III...etc. Number 10, 11 and 20 had their own format while a 30, for example, was a combination of a 20 and a 10.

For a comprehensive look at how the Phoenicians wrote down their numbers check this table:

Last edited by Layyouss; 27th June 2008 at 04:54 PM.. Reason: Fixing the images
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Default 27th June 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana View Post
We Lebanese like to attribute all the major achievements in the old world to our "supposed-to-be" ancestors! We somehow have an inferiority complex and treat that by saying phoencians were super people!
According to the Egyptians language is attributed to Taautos who was the father of tautology or imitation. He invented the first written characters two thousand years BC or earlier. Taautos came from Byblos, Phoenicia, that shows a continuous cultural tradition going back as far as 8,000 B.C.

Alphabetic writing was already well established in the Late Bronze Age at Ugarit where a cuneiform script was used. The Phoenician alphabetic script was borrowed to write well before the first millennium BC.

The Phoenicians were not mere passive peddlers in art or commerce. Their achievement in history was a positive contribution, even if it was only that of an intermediary. For example, the extent of the debt of Greece alone to Phoenicia may be fully measured by its adoption, probably in the 8th century BC, of the Phoenician alphabet with very little variation (along with Semitic loan words); by "orientalizing" decorative motifs on pottery and by architectural paradigms; and by the universal use in Greece of the Phoenician standards of weights and measures

Phoenician words are found in Greek and Latin classical literature as well as in Egyptian, Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew writings. The language is written with a 22-character alphabet that does not indicate vowels.

Although the Phoenicians used cuneiform (Mesopotamian writing) in what we call Ugaritic, they also produced a script of their own. The Phoenician alphabetic script of 22 letters was used at Byblos as early as the 15th century B.C. This method of writing, later adopted by the Greeks, is the ancestor of the modern Roman alphabet. It was the Phoenicians' most remarkable and distinctive contribution to civilization.

The Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder was a great admirer of the Phoenicians, he credited them with many discoveries, including the invention of trade. Although Pliny was not adverse to exaggerating, scholars do accept his evidence that Phoenicians were the first traveling salesmen. Because they needed an efficient method of keeping records, they invented an alphabet from which every alphabet of the world has descended. Along with an alphabet came the equipment for using it: pen, ink and, of course, papyrus, parchment and finally paper. A wax-writing tablet was found in an ancient Uluburun shipwreck (most likely to have been Canaanite Phoenician) off the coast of Turkey.

All such alphabets are descended from the Phoenician linear quasi-alphabet of 22 signs, first attested at Byblos and externally similar to the Proto-Byblian script. All the European alphabets are descendants of the Phoenician, and all the Asiatic alphabets are descendants of the Aramaic variants of the Phoenician.

The Phoenician alphabet is a forerunner of the Etruscan, Latin, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, and Syriac scripts among others, many of which are still in modern use. It has also been suggested that Phoenician is the ultimate source of Kharoshthi and of the Indic scripts descending from Brahmi.

here's a table to illustrate the evolution and origin of languages and alphabet
in the course of history.



do you still think we have an inferiority complex??
If you don't have enough information about a subject don't just throw arbitrary judgements, it will make you look bad (really bad).
Cheers
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Default 17th June 2009

Hi all. I was searching for info regarding this theory and stumbled upon this discussion. Since I found a much more plausible explanation on another site, I thought I'd provide the link, in case anyone is still wondering: Numbers
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Default 19th June 2009

it would be really intresting if it's true!
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