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Originally Posted by abientot  Why would atheism be an issue in the first place? Just as it doesnt matter which religion you choose to adhere to it also does not matter if you choose not to believe in any of them. The way i see it there is nothing to 'handle' here! |
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Originally Posted by SeekNirvana I have to agree with abientot. I "handle" them the same way I "handle" those who like orange juice without pulp. |
i asked for your opinion and take on this subject, and it's good to know that you think that way.
but lets leave the rhetorics out!
i think by posting this thread on the orange room, it was clear which commiunities/societies i was addressing.
If i would ask this question here in europe, to a german for instance, irrespective whether he's a hard core religious person or an atheist, he'd go like: "so what? what kind of question is that?! what are you hinting to exactly?!"
actually, even in europe, this question should inversely be posed on atheists and non-religious people, since they constitute the majority nowadays in europe. religion is vanishing, it's turning into a symbolic thing by time, just history!
but in our societies, the arab sicieties including lebanon, and also other religious societies (iran, turkey, indonesia, the latins, etc...) it's not the same!
even is US, where religious traditions and even beliefs are not any more bound to or even respected, atheism still serves as a rejected idea!
also history doesnt lie, we all know how atheists and even other religious communites were treated by those religious who had the powers throughout history consecutively..
i'd like to use a carlin's quote right:
"Do you believe in God? No. Boom! Dead. Do you believe in God? Yes. Do you believe in MY God? No. Boom! Dead. My God has a bigger **** than your God!"
So, there is no need to cover some things up here! In lebanon, in all the communities still if the majority identifies someone as atheist, this person would be socially rejected! i'm not suggesting here that these religious communities abandon or amend some of their traditions or beliefs to cope with this new idea! on the contrary, anyone, irrespective of his own beliefs and favored traditions, should abide by the "rules" of the community he's livin in, and should respect their traditions and habits. he's free of course not to participate, or just to leave out, but not to force on a change!
and when someone manages to cope in a specific community, there's no need for discrimination anymore! but again, that's not happening, in most cases.
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Originally Posted by Osiris I also have to agree with abientot and Seek.
But some people look at atheists like: "he is atheist! OMG, alla ynajjina, run for your life"!! |
yeah exactly. nothing similar to this however
in some communities or cities in lebanon, athesits would end up physically assaulted for no direct reasons! even shot down! and i'm not exagerating nor speculating! this is based on my personal experience. but those are extreme cases of course. but what should be discussed is the social alienation agaisnt atheists, or even non-religious and even further, seculars!!
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Originally Posted by Osiris Atheist, non-atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Sikh, Christian.. This is just like our music taste! Some like rock, some are into electronic stuff, some are more into metal, others prefer hip hop..
We are all human beings, and this is that matters the most. |
exactly. i always refer to a quote for GMA regarding this subject: (not the exact words)
"The relation between man and god, shoud tak a vertical form, and the social relations and bounds between humans themselves should take a horizontal form"
meaning that w.r.t. divine-human interactions, those should not intersect with each other. each human has his own beliefs and rituals and should not affect his social relations with his community or other coexisting people.
while the interactions between humans should be based on the rules set in that specific society and the respect and abidance to those rules and traditions. even if some of those traditions are based on some dominent religious beliefs.
so for me, i dont care what religion a person belongs to, nor what beliefs does he bind himself to. let it be a christian, moslim, jewish, sikh, hindu, a shining fork worshiper, i dont even ask!
when some of his habits, traditions, rituals, cant fit me in a way that we cant cope with each other, then there is no need for a close friendship, but also there is no need for irrespect, hatred, detestation, nor violence!
maybe a little dislike, but that shouldnt affect the peaceful coexistence between anybody.
for instance, i have few hard core HAers as close friends. i see them frequently and even share some social group activities from time to time.
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Originally Posted by Dalzi
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ It's simply no one's business what i believe or not believe. 7orr!
An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in God, what does that have to do with me as a believer? Different opinions, different views, different philosophies...
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exactly dalzi. though your attitude dont reflect this very opinion of yours
, but that's the way everyone should at least think/bear in mind. and then, self-control and right behavior should automatically follow.
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Originally Posted by Dalzi I was very intolerent in the past... I think i still am lol, but only with family. I slam them like no tomorrow  , but of course only when it comes to politics :D. These days, your religion is either 14 Azar or 8 Shbat, battal fi atheist vs theist. |
we the lebanese always seek somthing to fight over. not in a single moment in the lebanese history were the lebanse united over just one simple idea!!
but that intolerence is the real problem, and not the difference in beliefs and principles! we have to learn become tolerant and self-controlable and then accepting different opinions irrespective in what category they fall in!
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Originally Posted by doc I agree with all the above....though i have to admit that i admire their courage |
which courage exactly you hinted to? in what aspect?
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Originally Posted by Omeros |
plz could explain to me Om how or in where did you find both topics similar?!
and then didnt you notice also that the thread's closed!
Atheists, how do you view them? -
5th April 2008
It's not that easy for me to trade Homer Simpson.
