Michael Schumacher retiring at the end of this season! (old thread)

[Order]

Originally Posted by Coldplayer

For the latest results check out
the Senna vs. Schumacher thread on NewsOnF1 Forums

Senna vs. Schumacher %
I rate Senna higher than Schumacher 62.86
I rate Schumacher higher than Senna 24.32
The 2 cannot be compared 9.73
I rate them at the same level 2.78
I don't rate either 0.32


Source: http://www.newsonf1.com/opinion/topic102/submit-ss.htm

__________________________________________________ _____


It is well-nigh impossible to compare drivers of different eras, but Senna and Schumacher make the job slightly easier because they raced against each other - albeit for a very brief time.



Senna combined all the qualities a racing driver could need - amazing skill, total commitment and a brilliant intellect.

And that was quite apart from a gleaming charisma that has established him as one of the all-time great sporting icons.

Schumacher is sensationally gifted, too, and it is clear that Senna's death robbed Formula One of what would have been one of the greatest on-track rivalries of all time.

At 34, Senna was at his peak, but probably did not have much longer there; Schumacher still had to reach his.

Schumacher has done more than enough to establish himself as one of the greatest racing drivers of all time. But the assessment, subjective though it might be, suggests that Senna was even better.

Source: http://autosport.net/items/senna/oth...-vs-schumi.htm

and do you find that they are giving some facts or numbers in here ??
this is another emotional report, i bet that none of the persons responding never tried to compare them but are affective with Senna
personnaly i didn't use to care much about senna history before this thread open and when i searched infos about him well i realised that he's not that different than Schumi and he always had a super car when he won his titles

i say it again it's not an emotional poll or article that can make Senna better than michael it's just facts and numbers !!

i gave you facts and numbers so i expect from those who want to reply and say that senna is better to give me facts and numbers please don't just reply to say that senna is better it's useless

peace
Schumaker ist das beste (schumaker is the best)

[Coldplayer]

Originally Posted by Order

and do you find that they are giving some facts or numbers in here ??
this is another emotional report, i bet that none of the persons responding never tried to compare them but are affective with Senna
personnaly i didn't use to care much about senna history before this thread open and when i searched infos about him well i realised that he's not that different than Schumi and he always had a super car when he won his titles

i say it again it's not an emotional poll or article that can make Senna better than michael it's just facts and numbers !!

i gave you facts and numbers so i expect from those who want to reply and say that senna is better to give me facts and numbers please don't just reply to say that senna is better it's useless

peace
Schumaker ist das beste (schumaker is the best)

Well my friend...
Emotions is not what made Ayrton Senna be the best driver in the world. There are statistics (numbers and figures) and evaluations conducted, which proves what I am saying.
You are right that the numbers say that Shumacher has achieved more victories and all, till this very day.... but the real question is... would Schumacher be the world champion if Senna was still alive. Most of the people who has followed Senna era doubts that.
When we ask who is the best, we should take into consideration everything about the 2 drivers and Not just how many times each has won.

[maven]

i want to talk about senna..i talk about shumio...

while i know nthg of him..

but lte me say....


massa with sauber = nothing
massa with ferrari = third
rubens barciehllo with ferrari = second
barichello with honda = nothing


if senna was still alive..he wouldnt won anything....not becoz he is not bnest driver...but becoz the driver thata has best car wisn...

thats why i refuse to says whose bset driver...amnd schumacher isnt best dfriver in f1 history and not even now.,..

if shunmacher drover mclaren ...he would face reliability probelsm with the engine and he wouldnt win anything..

for me the driver skills in f1 has 5 % affect..meanwhile techonolgy playts the big part in this sport..

give the best car u win...have minardi u lose..have mclaren whose engine gets screwed all time u lose..
end

[Order]

Originally Posted by maven

i want to talk about senna..i talk about shumio...
while i know nthg of him..
but lte me say....
massa with sauber = nothing
massa with ferrari = third
rubens barciehllo with ferrari = second
barichello with honda = nothing
if senna was still alive..he wouldnt won anything....not becoz he is not bnest driver...but becoz the driver thata has best car wisn...
thats why i refuse to says whose bset driver...amnd schumacher isnt best dfriver in f1 history and not even now.,..
if shunmacher drover mclaren ...he would face reliability probelsm with the engine and he wouldnt win anything..
for me the driver skills in f1 has 5 % affect..meanwhile techonolgy playts the big part in this sport..
give the best car u win...have minardi u lose..have mclaren whose engine gets screwed all time u lose..
end

if i follow your logic than their are no good drivers their are just good cars
and even if it was me who is driving ferrari i can win the championship

[Order]

Originally Posted by Coldplayer

Well my friend...
Emotions is not what made Ayrton Senna be the best driver in the world. There are statistics (numbers and figures) and evaluations conducted, which proves what I am saying.
You are right that the numbers say that Shumacher has achieved more victories and all, till this very day.... but the real question is... would Schumacher be the world champion if Senna was still alive. Most of the people who has followed Senna era doubts that.
When we ask who is the best, we should take into consideration everything about the 2 drivers and Not just how many times each has won.

you are still not giving me facts !!

Originally Posted by Coldplayer

Well my friend...

You are right that the numbers say that Shumacher has achieved more victories and all, till this very day.... but the real question is... would Schumacher be the world champion if Senna was still alive. Most of the people who has followed Senna era doubts that.
.

you know we can say anything about senna as he's not here to make it ( we can also say that he mabe would have been able to drive till his 47 and still been the champion untill nowadays but it's just not true cause look at his career you acn compare him to alain prost and you'll see that even alain prost was better than him knowing that they had direct confrontations and same career so we can surely compare them.
you can't compare both drivers as at the time schumi arrived to F1 Senna was at his end and still schumi was better in the standings in 1992 with an average car comparing to senna ( i feel i am repeating myself here and no one is listening)

i don't deny that senna was a big driver one of the best with a very beautifull style but still not THE BEST
as i said people are emotional and whenever they refer to senna it's about how he died and that's why everyone still talk about him they always remember his trajic death but few are those who remember his wins and records.

There are statistics (numbers and figures) and evaluations conducted, which proves what I am saying.

and what do you have to say about those statistics
we gave you lots of statistics till now and didn't see any
if you bring me reports saying that senna is better i can bring you reports saying that Schumi is better but both will be emotional slef believes subjective reports while numbers don't lie

Originally Posted by DouDouYeYe

In 1992, which was Michael’s first full year in F1,he was 3rd in the championship behind the champion Nigel Mansell and runner up Ricardo Patrese, but ahead of his team mate Martin Brundle who came 6th and triple world champion Ayrton Senna, who was 4th.. With that victory and 7 more podium finishes and 53 points

Between 1981 and 1989, the number of races/ season was 16 GP
Between 1990 and 1999, the nb of races/season was between 16 and 17 GP
Between 2000 and 2006, the nb of races per season consists from 17 GP (except for 2004 and 2006 : 18 GP, 2005 the season when Schumi won only one GP : 19 GP)
From the above, you can conclude that Senna's seasons were consisted from 16 races or 17 races.
Schumi's seasons were consisted from 16 or 17 races too(except for the years 2004, 2005 and 2006)

You want a fair comparison:
Schumacher has won 90/247 * 100 = 36.5% of the races he participated in
He reached the Podium in 153/247 * 100 = 62% of the races he participated in


In the other hand, let us check what Senna has did:
He did win 41/162 *100 = 25% of the races he participated in
He did reach the podium in 80/162 * 100= 49% of the races he participated in

[maven]

Originally Posted by Order

if i follow your logic than their are no good drivers their are just good cars
and even if it was me who is driving ferrari i can win the championship

not just any driver....i said 5 % driving...

you just have to be good driver....not best and not one of the best ...just good and have best car and u win..

techonolgy plays big role...
controlling the car for example..it depends alot on techonolgy...minardi car drivers face problem with it..meanhile ferrari driver no..becoz they have better techonolgy..

[Thuggishh_E]

Originally Posted by Order

you are still not giving me facts !!



you know we can say anything about senna as he's not here to make it ( we can also say that he mabe would have been able to drive till his 47 and still been the champion untill nowadays but it's just not true cause look at his career you acn compare him to alain prost and you'll see that even alain prost was better than him knowing that they had direct confrontations and same career so we can surely compare them.
you can't compare both drivers as at the time schumi arrived to F1 Senna was at his end and still schumi was better in the standings in 1992 with an average car comparing to senna ( i feel i am repeating myself here and no one is listening)

i don't deny that senna was a big driver one of the best with a very beautifull style but still not THE BEST
as i said people are emotional and whenever they refer to senna it's about how he died and that's why everyone still talk about him they always remember his trajic death but few are those who remember his wins and records.



and what do you have to say about those statistics
we gave you lots of statistics till now and didn't see any
if you bring me reports saying that senna is better i can bring you reports saying that Schumi is better but both will be emotional slef believes subjective reports while numbers don't lie

i Second this reply 100%.

[Coldplayer]

Originally Posted by Order

you are still not giving me facts !!


you know we can say anything about senna as he's not here to make it ( we can also say that he mabe would have been able to drive till his 47 and still been the champion untill nowadays but it's just not true cause look at his career you acn compare him to alain prost and you'll see that even alain prost was better than him knowing that they had direct confrontations and same career so we can surely compare them.
you can't compare both drivers as at the time schumi arrived to F1 Senna was at his end and still schumi was better in the standings in 1992 with an average car comparing to senna ( i feel i am repeating myself here and no one is listening)

i don't deny that senna was a big driver one of the best with a very beautifull style but still not THE BEST
as i said people are emotional and whenever they refer to senna it's about how he died and that's why everyone still talk about him they always remember his trajic death but few are those who remember his wins and records.



and what do you have to say about those statistics
we gave you lots of statistics till now and didn't see any
if you bring me reports saying that senna is better i can bring you reports saying that Schumi is better but both will be emotional slef believes subjective reports while numbers don't lie

Ok... you want me to give facts? ok i will... Schumacher is the world champion, he is the one who has won the most in formula 1, he is considered to be the fastest f1 driver, he is the one who could break the record of Senna in the starting pole (not so long ago), he is the one who could break the record winning in F1 races, he is the one who brake the record of the fastest lap... and the list goes on... this all after what?? Unfortunetely, after the Senna has died. And not only that, also technology and F1 regulations change has played a big role. You might say that technology has changed to all and not just ferrari... but no doubt ferrari was the strongest, not for the drivers it has, but bcoz of the technology it uses.
The facts (numbers) goes in favor of Schumacher, no doubt. But as i meant before, you cannot focus on the fact when Senna was not alive. You surely know that those facts would be different if Senna was still alive, and it would not be that way.
As Maven said, which I totally agree, car plays a huge role in everything. If all drivers drive the same car, we would perfectly know who is the best driver, but thats not the real case. However, the driver should be inteligent, strong and commited.

[Order]

Originally Posted by Coldplayer

Ok... you want me to give facts? ok i will... Schumacher is the world champion, he is the one who has won the most in formula 1, he is considered to be the fastest f1 driver, he is the one who could break the record of Senna in the starting pole (not so long ago), he is the one who could break the record winning in F1 races, he is the one who brake the record of the fastest lap... and the list goes on... this all after what?? Unfortunetely, after the Senna has died.

ok once again i am going to give you new numbers

in 1994 the year senna passed away both Schumi and Senna had fast cars as Benetton-Ford (michael's car) and Williams-Renault (senna's car) both won all the races except one. Michael won the first two races where senna was still alive and he was hedding for other consecutive victories you may say that we can not know what would have been the result if senna didn't die but the same goes in both ways (but schumi had the advantage as he started with two victories that means he was hedding to more victories ...)

But as i meant before, you cannot focus on the fact when Senna was not alive. You surely know that those facts would be different if Senna was still alive, and it would not be that way.

man it's you who cannot focus on the fact that if senna would have continued he may have won cause after 1991 he declined and wasn't as good as before

And not only that, also technology and F1 regulations change has played a big role. You might say that technology has changed to all and not just ferrari... but no doubt ferrari was the strongest, not for the drivers it has, but bcoz of the technology it uses.

Man did you read all what i said before ?? why are you focalising on ferrari as if Senna wasn't driving on maclaren the fastest car at his time !!! he wasn't able to win a champinship before moving to maclaren !!
please make some reseach about senna's history and the races results and you'll understand what i am talking about

and can you please elaborate how F1 regulations changes played a big role in schumaker wins as if those changes were made to make him win !!! .?

Man at least Michael managed to have good results with his beneton while the car was still not one the best

and you stay focalising on Ferrari well when schumi came to ferrari where was ferrari ?? the cars constructors where dominated by williams and benton and amclaren at that time and ferrari was nothing but still schumi manged to make good results just compare ferrari before mickael arrive and after it !!

As Maven said, which I totally agree, car plays a huge role in everything. If all drivers drive the same car, we would perfectly know who is the best driver, but thats not the real case. However, the driver should be inteligent, strong and commited.

as i replied to maven in that case i can procalme that i am the best driver ever
and if i continue in your way of thinking i can find that you are contradicting your self here as you are saying that the car play the bigest role and you said that Senna is the best driver and so i can't see how you can qualify senna as the best driver while he just had the best car ???
you see emotional replies and subjective replies make contradictions


(and you didn't answer about prost better than senna as both are from the same era and made races together where prost surpassed senna ?!!
and the same thing about 1992 where schumi with his beneton car was better ranked than Senna with his Maclaren ??? )
)

[maven]

and you stay focalising on Ferrari well when schumi came to ferrari where was ferrari ?? the cars constructors where dominated by williams and benton and amclaren at that time and ferrari was nothing but still schumi manged to make good results just compare ferrari before mickael arrive and after it !!

for ur information...

when shcumacer moved to ferrari..he didnt move alone..

best engineers of benneton moved with him...
byrne the south african...

Rory Byrne (born January 10, 1944, Pretoria, South Africa) is currently chief designer for the Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro.

Since joining Ferrari in 1997 Byrne designed cars have won over seventy Grand Prix, six constructors titles and five drivers titles. This outstanding record of success makes Byrne the most successful designer of the last decade, narrowly eclipsing rival Adrian Newey.



also

Over the following five seasons Rory Byrne designed cars took four more race wins but the Benetton team was never in a position to truly challenge the likes of Ferrari, Williams and McLaren, with most victories being taken on days when the competition faltered.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Byrne