The Zionist Plan for the Middle East

[Kibitzer]

Hate breeds hate.

This is really the bottom line, isn't it?

I'm not "choosing sides" here - there is no "good guy" in the equasion. Everyone is a "bad guy" as far as I'm concerned and that's probably a big reason why after all these many years there is no "resolution" and let's be frank here ... probably won't be a "resolution".

There is way to much interest in what happened beginning in 1894 and on and on and on.

and very little interest in just deciding that "enough is enough" and dealing with here today and now.

You did not answer me exactly but can I infer from your answer that basically the Lebanese follow the Hezbollah theory on Jews and Israel? I did not use the SHN quotes as a "condemnation" but as a way to ask - "Is this what the majority of Lebanese think?" It seemed like a reasonable way to ask because they are "direct quotes" and not "speculation".

Thank you for your reply and keep in mind that you don't need to convince me that Israel is a "bad guy" ... I already accept that, them and everybody else who has been involved in this never-ending battle.

[Lebanese_Nationalist]

Originally Posted by Ahmad Aown

Lebanese_Nationalist

Ref your question above, I am wondering whether it is coming out of Worry and Fear,
Or
Out of Concern to how we should confront this Evil Mind of theirs.

Not to mention that Skepticisim in this Manner is out of the question due to the Natural trend of Powerfull States Looking at weaker ones with eyes of Greed,
And taking into consideration the fact that Israel did not Exist prior to 1948, and even when it came to existance the percentage of the Jewish Population to the Palestinians (Syrians), was only 8%, and the Area of the Introduced Israeli State was far smaller than what it is Now or 1967 or 1970 or or or .

As Dalzi said, we don't need an Article to prove their Plan, We Read their History that is full of Conspiracies, we Read their Talmud Teachings that reveals their Evil Mind, and Most Important we have experienced their Methods in times of War and (Peace).

So what is it, Fear or Concern?

Ya SSNP, enough of this rabid anti-Jewish rhetoric. Let me explain to you the many reasons why this plan isn't feasible, realistic, or on the Israeli agenda.

First of all, there's the fact that Israel cannot occupy such vast tracts of land with the limited numbers they have. The United States is barely able to contain Iraq with the large number of troops they have there. How do you expect the Israeli army to occupy and control Cairo, Beirut, Damascus, Baghdad, and many other major Middle Eastern cities.

Okay let's say the Israelis wanted to expel the residents of all these countries. Let's take into consideration the population numbers.

Egypt - 79 million
Syria - 19 million
Jordan - 6 million
Lebanon - 4 million
Iraq - 27 million

Will the international community accept this many refugees? The answer is a simple no. If 750,000 Palestinian refugees in 1948 and their descendants are causing this much trouble in the region, how much trouble will 135 million refugees cause? Also, neighbouring countries will not accept having millions upon millions of refugees pore through their borders. Expulsion would need to take the form of a nuclear holocaust against the Arab countries, which would make the whole plan useless to start with. Who would be able/want to populate a nuclear wasteland?

If this is Israel's actual plan for the future, then why the recent withdrawals from southern Lebanon and Gaza? Surely if Israel wanted to expand its borders, it would not have signed peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt.

Dalzi, Ahmed Aoun, and others. Please take these factors into consideration before you assume these crazy scenarios are feasible. Also, do not resort to anti-Jewish rhetoric such as "we've seen what they can do" and "it's their evil plan to rule the Middle East".

Cheers!

[chafic]

Originally Posted by Kibitzer

You did not answer me exactly but can I infer from your answer that basically the Lebanese follow the Hezbollah theory on Jews and Israel? I did not use the SHN quotes as a "condemnation" but as a way to ask - "Is this what the majority of Lebanese think?" It seemed like a reasonable way to ask because they are "direct quotes" and not "speculation".

Thank you for your reply and keep in mind that you don't need to convince me that Israel is a "bad guy" ... I already accept that, them and everybody else who has been involved in this never-ending battle.

Kibitzer,

it's not easy to give random answers regarding your question, and speculations could not be accurate as long as there are no polls conducted (at least according to my knowledge).

Now there was a poll taken on this forum, regarding the issue of peace of Israel, here's the link to it Is peace with Israel acceptable in the future?.
You can figure out an answer to your question, but extrapolation of the results does not have to be very accurate, first because those who have participated in the poll do not represent the whole lebanese population, and second because it was taken before the July war.

Regards

[Kibitzer]

Originally Posted by chafic

Kibitzer,

it's not easy to give random answers regarding your question, and speculations could not be accurate as long as there are no polls conducted (at least according to my knowledge).

Now there was a poll taken on this forum, regarding the issue of peace of Israel, here's the link to it Is peace with Israel acceptable in the future?.
You can figure out an answer to your question, but extrapolation of the results does not have to be very accurate, first because those who have participated in the poll do not represent the whole lebanese population, and second because it was taken before the July war.

Regards

Thank you ...... and you are absolutely correct. On reflection, it was a "stupid" question, because I know that in any society there is disagreement on even the "easy" issues and none would deny this is NOT an easy issue.

Thank you for the poll. I remember it now but had forgotten about it - like I said, I tend to not spend much, if any time on the threads about Israel. I can only think of one that started off with an interesting question, but of course soon sank into "normal". It had to do with "knowledge" and "education" about Israel.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by jiugiusti

(1) On this thread and in many others, we show our differences: I believe a lebanese independant nation, not an arabic one, not whatever one.

What are we? Zombies?

(2) There are many lebanese who think of an strong islamic nation, a strong arab nation, etc.. they don't care about a strong lebanese nation.

Those people are more Lebanese than you or me.

(3) True, Israel don't want a strong lebanon.. but the worse is that we 'residents of lebanon' did not yet agree on 'lebanese nation'.. Believe me, when we lebanese agree and beleive in one lebanese nation, we can build an empire. but as long as there are lebanese who thank syria and iran (after their occupation to lebanon), when some still goes to KSA, Egypt, USA, France, etc........... we won't ever build a city.. not a nation.

We all want our country and nothing else, this is what ALL the people care for. If you don't wanna understand this, go speak to them yourself. Give yourself a chance to see how the people think and what they care for most.

(4) The main problem begins in lebanon than comes regional and international interferences... Our identitarian differences... Most christians (it happens to be christians) would accept a federal or even one secular lebanon.. Most muslim (it happens to be muslims) will reject it.. and will keep fighting for syria, iran, ksa, egypt, jordan, arab nationa, islamic nation, etc... And identitarian differences has no solutions, even in our dreams.

Lebanon is a piece of the pie. No one's fighting for no one. We are fighting for our land and freedom in the South. You have no clue what it is like or what we go through because we happen to be on the borders.

p.s. when I say secular, I mean non religious (christian or muslim alike), even if 90% want a christian or muslim nation.

Who told you that 90% want a christian or a muslim nation? I've never heard anyone i know say that they want a muslim nation. Have you?

[DukeRustfield]

I almost hate to bump this thread, but do you have any idea the amount of racism that exists in these posts? The hypocrisy is astounding. No one is "evil" based on their birth. I understand there is massive "bad blood" between your countries, but just like there are HUMANS in Lebanon with different and contrasting opinions, goals, ideals, and dreams, so it is with any country. Including Israel.

[Hye4Lebanon]

Originally Posted by DukeRustfield

I almost hate to bump this thread, but do you have any idea the amount of racism that exists in these posts? The hypocrisy is astounding. No one is "evil" based on their birth. I understand there is massive "bad blood" between your countries, but just like there are HUMANS in Lebanon with different and contrasting opinions, goals, ideals, and dreams, so it is with any country. Including Israel.

You are correct Duke,

I am glad you brought this up.There are citizens on both sides of the fence who do not want to see another war, cry over the death a loved one, a family member, a friend. They just want to go on with their lives. Yet, we have people who are out there to prove a point to the world that there are conspiracy theories. And we should sacrifice more mothers and children for that purpose.

I see no difference between all parties who claim one is better over the other. Flags are burnt from both sides, prisoners are held on both sides, hatred is spread on both sides. But no one has yet to step forward and talk peace.

One thing that some fail to realize, that a country is being sacrificed in the middle of all this. It was sacrificed in 78, 82 and now again in 2006. If this hatred keeps growing, it will eventually create more and more bloodshed because we don't have anyone yet that stands behind the mic to talk friendship. Or at least make an effort, make a small step to show the world what we the Lebanese are really made of and what we have achieved all these years since its birth in the 40s.

Israel has its share of massive distruction in Lebanon, we have lost thousands of civilians no matter what relegion. An invading army shows no mercy. Lebanese paid a heavy price for the onslaught, the occupation. The torture chambers under that occupation. Many have died in their prison camps. As you saw in July -Aug 2006, only "hours" before the U.N. brokered cease fire, when Israel launched 80% of all its cluster bombs on the Lebanese villages. The UN claims over 400,000 have yet to be discovered. Why would a nation do such a thing?

Now you know why there is so much hatred Duke. It goes both ways....Either someone stands up and says enough is enough and use a pen instead of firepower, or........we are back to square one.

Hye

[Ahmad Aown]

Originally Posted by DukeRustfield

I almost hate to bump this thread, but do you have any idea the amount of racism that exists in these posts? The hypocrisy is astounding. No one is "evil" based on their birth. I understand there is massive "bad blood" between your countries, but just like there are HUMANS in Lebanon with different and contrasting opinions, goals, ideals, and dreams, so it is with any country. Including Israel.

DukeRustfield& Hye4Lebanon

Thank you for your Peaceful Concern, But Peace is not a Desire, it is a struggle between Good and Evil.

Reminder: This thread is about a Plan set by the Jewish State = Israel.

Sticking to the point I present to you and all readers a Specimen of what took place in Iraq (Behind the Curtains), After reading the Article Below, Could you please tell us whether such (Peaceful & Democratic) acts Falls under such Plan or not, How and Why?

Thanks

Information Clearing House

NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN

Israeli secret agents killed 310 Iraqi scientists

By Mustafa Amara

Azzaman, 2004-10-30 -- More than 310 Iraqi scientists are thought to have perished at the hands of Israeli secret agents in Iraq since fall of Baghdad to US troops in April 2003, a seminar has found.

The seminar, held in Cairo, was attended by politicians, journalists and experts with an interest in current Iraqi affairs.

The experts said they had detected an organized campaign aimed at “liquidating Iraqi scientists” in the past 18 months and most of them pointed the finger at the Israeli secret police service, the Mossad.

The organizers said their aim was to highlight the plight of Iraqi scientists particularly those who were engaged in the weapons programs under the former regime.

“There is a joint American and Israeli plan to kill as many Iraqi scientists as possible,” said Abdel Raoof al-Raidi, an ambassador and assistant foreign minister.

The Iraqi ambassador in Cairo, Ahmad al-Iraqi, accused Israel of sending to Iraq immediately after the US invasion “a commando unit” charged with the killing of Iraqi scientists.

“Israel has played a prominent role in liquidating Iraqi scientists … The campaign is part of a Zionist plan to kill Arab and Muslim scientists working in applied research which Israel sees as threatening its interests,” al-Iraqi said.

DR. Imad Jad, an Israeli affairs expert at the Al-Ahram Studies Center, said the US had already airlifted 70 Iraqi scientists out of the country and placed them in areas to make it difficult for them to “transfer information to anti-US quarters.”

He said more than 310 Iraqi scientists have been killed so far and most of them at the hands of Mossad agents working in Iraq.

He said the Ahram Center estimated that nearly 17,000 Iraqi scientists working in various fields of knowledge have fled the country since the US-led invasion.

In Baghdad, interim government officials refused to comment on the deliberations that took place in the Cairo conference.

However, the Ministry of Higher Education and the Ministry of Science and Technology said their own figures tally with those mentioned at the seminar, particularly regarding the number of Iraqi scientist been killed so far.
_________________________________________

[DukeRustfield]

Now you know why there is so much hatred Duke. It goes both ways....Either someone stands up and says enough is enough and use a pen instead of firepower, or........we are back to square one.

It feels like all sides are angry teenage boys. They can't be the first to offer their hand because it would make them look weak. So they'd rather have everyone and everything they care about be destroyed instead.

it is a struggle between Good and Evil.

I'm sorry, George Bush called, and he wants his rhetoric back. There is no such thing as evil. Humans are humans regardless of skin tone or God(s).

NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN

You won't find it there because it's not credible. Just more crack pot conspiracy theories. Here's a real simple reason why it's nonsense: if America finds some top nuclear scientists in Iraq they ask them if they would like to come to America with their families and work. And unless they really like Iraqi violence, they're very likely to go. We've done this since WWII. Why destroy assets when you can get them to work for you?

[Hye4Lebanon]

Originally Posted by DukeRustfield

It feels like all sides are angry teenage boys. They can't be the first to offer their hand because it would make them look weak. So they'd rather have everyone and everything they care about be destroyed instead.

Its more like ignorant little boys with big toys Duke.

One can use this "evil zionist plan" to amplify hatred instead of looking in their own backyard of making things better for citizens.