The Zionist Plan for the Middle East - Page 4 - The Orange Room

Incognito

Zionism is ultra-Jewish nationalism.

It has succeeded in becoming the main ideology of Jews worldwide today.

Israel is based on Zionism, and its extreme religious nationalism continues to dictate the state's behaviour.

This renders the state no different from any other ultra-nationalist state, such as Nazi Germany, Franco's Spain or Mussolini's Italy.

It is a racist state that lives by racist principles.

In this case, it is we, us original inhabitants of the Middle East that are directly and immediately effected by this state.

Its actions in Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt and Syria since the 1930s up to today demonstrate that the state has changed little in its ideological foundations.

At its beginning, yes it aspired for a Greater Israel between the Euphrates and the Nile. Today, perhaps, it has realised that the dream to control all is beyond its abilities, but that has not alleviated its level of hatred of us and its determined view that all of this land is their "Promised Land".

This level of hatred, at its extreme, is not based upon a rivalry, its based upon racism and superiority. Judaism already dictates that Jews are preferential to others, as "The Chosen" people, but obviously we can find Jews today who are moderate and ignore this archaic contention. However, if the religion already conveys such a message, I can't begin to imagine what an ultra-nationalist Jewish extremist must perceive. It's this extremism which we confront in the entity that is Israel.

Israel, and all who believe in it and its racist ideological foundations, view us as barbarians, animals, lower than a "Jewish dog", occupying their "Promised Land". They view us as they view the Palestinians, whether we're Christian or Muslim.

This hatred, this extremism, this racism will continue to drive the policies of the state of Israel, because these attributes form the foundation, the raison d'etre of the Jewish state.

Israel is not merely a representative of "Judaism" as it claims, it is a representative of the most extremist elements this religion, or any religion, can produce.

The Israelis may change strategy that best serve their relative interests, but that does not change their beliefs, and beliefs do form the core of policy and action.

chafic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahmad Aown

1- This is a Plan, and the Source is provided for you to Verify.

2- Being it a Plan does not Necessarily mean that it is doomed for Success. So why it's Goals were not acheived in the eighties, this is subject to many factors, But can you Deny that several Attempts were made By the Israelis towards reaching their Goals?

- Remember the Israeli Invasion in 1982 which lasted Two Decades,
- Remember the Lebanese Civil War, and the many promotions for dividing Lebanon into Secterian States.
- Remember the 17 May Agreement that enforced on the Lebanese Government By Israel during President Gemayel's Term.
- Remember the Iraqi Invasion 1 & 2,
- Remember how G.W.Bush and his Neo-Cons Turned Iraq into a Democratic Heaven, The Average Death Toll in Iraq per Day Exceeds what Sadam was sentenced to Death For in the Dujeil Masacre.
- Remeber Bin Laden and the Rise of Al Qaeda, and how he did not exist in Iraq during Sadam's Regime, and How theu Exist Strongly now under the US Democratic Rule of Iraq.
Redmember, Remember, Remember,,,,

All these and Hundreds of other Incidents and Events, fall into place for the Zionist Plan.

It did not fully happen, because there are people who are fighting against it, But no one can deny that it is a plan and Israel is Severely trying to acheive its Goals.

Ahmad,

1- It's not about totally denying or totally approving the existence of such a plan. What I said is that the suggested plan is an essay written and proposed by some Israeli journalist back in the 80's. It wouldn't be any surprising to find lot of other articles that talk about similar issues. There's no proof whatsoever that this plan was adopted or implemented by the Israeli government.

2- If with all the Arab failures, politically and militarily, the cultural decline and the internal conflicts, Israelis were not able to implement such a plan, that leaves us with two choices (and maybe more):
* These alleged plans are just delusions of some writers\journalists, and that they were not adopted by any Israeli government.
* Israel is too weak to implement such plans, and we would be delusional if we believe it could (because if it wasn't able to in the past years, it's not likely that it would be able now) and Arabs leadership are not as weak or compromising as we suppose they are.

Now I think that it's absurd to believe that the American interferences in the ME aim to carry out Israeli plans. Americans do actually have plans of their own, plans that guarantee their own interests, political or economical. In the Arab-Israeli conflict, they are biased to Israel, but that does not lead to going for wars to carry out Israeli plans. You could talk about a neo-conservative ideology in the US, that is in accordance with some Israeli extremist theorists, but that is another issue.

You name many events that happened during the 80's-90's , and relate them to the alleged plan proposed by the Israeli journalists. Actually, I see no obvious relation between them. Now, if I choose to believe that such a plan exists, or rather that such a plan is being implemented, it wouldn't be hard to convince myself of the existence of a relation between them. After all, if one is convinced of Michel Hayek, he would convince oneself that his speculations are actually happening.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be living a paranoia built on conspiracy theories, demonizing the west and Israel, and playing victims. I think that's enough, for our people, and that's been thoroughly abused by leaderships, and that is exactly what helps whoever "hates" you.
The bottom line is that the doom we're in, we brought it to ourselves (of course with interference of others lot of the time, but we are the utterly firstly accountable ones); constantly pushing it on Israel and the West doesn't help the healing.

Regards

Dalzi

End notes

1. American Universities Field Staff. Report No.33, 1979. According to this research, the population of the world will be 6 billion in the year 2000. Today's world population can be broken down as follows: China, 958 million; India, 635 million; USSR, 261 million; U.S., 218 million Indonesia, 140 million; Brazil and Japan, 110 million each. According to the figures of the U.N. Population Fund for 1980, there will be, in 2000, 50 cities with a population of over 5 million each. The population ofthp;Third World will then be 80% of the world population. According to Justin Blackwelder, U.S. Census Office chief, the world population will not reach 6 billion because of hunger.

2. Soviet nuclear policy has been well summarized by two American Sovietologists: Joseph D. Douglas and Amoretta M. Hoeber, Soviet Strategy for Nuclear War, (Stanford, Ca., Hoover Inst. Press, 1979). In the Soviet Union tens and hundreds of articles and books are published each year which detail the Soviet doctrine for nuclear war and there is a great deal of documentation translated into English and published by the U.S. Air Force,including USAF: Marxism-Leninism on War and the Army: The Soviet View, Moscow, 1972; USAF: The Armed Forces of the Soviet State. Moscow, 1975, by Marshal A. Grechko. The basic Soviet approach to the matter is presented in the book by Marshal Sokolovski published in 1962 in Moscow: Marshal V. D. Sokolovski, Military Strategy, Soviet Doctrine and Concepts(New York, Praeger, 1963).

3. A picture of Soviet intentions in various areas of the world can be drawn from the book by Douglas and Hoeber, ibid. For additional material see: Michael Morgan, "USSR's Minerals as Strategic Weapon in the Future," Defense and Foreign Affairs, Washington, D.C., Dec. 1979.

4. Admiral of the Fleet Sergei Gorshkov, Sea Power and the State, London, 1979. Morgan, loc. cit. General George S. Brown (USAF) C-JCS, Statement to the Congress on the Defense Posture of the United States For Fiscal Year 1979, p. 103; National Security Council, Review of Non-Fuel Mineral Policy, (Washington, D.C. 1979,); Drew Middleton, The New York Times, (9/15/79); Time, 9/21/80.

5. Elie Kedourie, "The End of the Ottoman Empire," Journal of Contemporary History, Vol. 3, No.4, 1968.

6. Al-Thawra, Syria 12/20/79, Al-Ahram,12/30/79, Al Ba'ath, Syria, 5/6/79. 55% of the Arabs are 20 years old and younger, 70% of the Arabs live in Africa, 55% of the Arabs under 15 are unemployed, 33% live in urban areas, Oded Yinon, "Egypt's Population Problem," The Jerusalem Quarterly, No. 15, Spring 1980.

7. E. Kanovsky, "Arab Haves and Have Nots," The Jerusalem Quarterly, No.1, Fall 1976, Al Ba'ath, Syria, 5/6/79.

8. In his book, former Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin said that the Israeli government is in fact responsible for the design of American policy in the Middle East, after June '67, because of its own indecisiveness as to the future of the territories and the inconsistency in its positions since it established the background for Resolution 242 and certainly twelve years later for the Camp David agreements and the peace treaty with Egypt. According to Rabin, on June 19, 1967, President Johnson sent a letter to Prime Minister Eshkol in which he did not mention anything about withdrawal from the new territories but exactly on the same day the government resolved to return territories in exchange for peace. After the Arab resolutions in Khartoum (9/1/67) the government altered its position but contrary to its decision of June 19, did not notify the U.S. of the alteration and the U.S. continued to support 242 in the Security Council on the basis of its earlier understanding that Israel is prepared to return territories. At that point it was already too late to change the U.S. position and Israel's policy. From here the way was opened to peace agreements on the basis of 242 as was later agreed upon in Camp David. See Yitzhak Rabin. Pinkas Sherut, (Ma'ariv 1979) pp. 226-227.

9. Foreign and Defense Committee Chairman Prof. Moshe Arens argued in an interview (Ma 'ariv,10/3/80) that the Israeli government failed to prepare an economic plan before the Camp David agreements and was itself surprised by the cost of the agreements, although already during the negotiations it was possible to calculate the heavy price and the serious error involved in not having prepared the economic grounds for peace.

The former Minister of Treasury, Mr. Yigal Holwitz, stated that if it were not for the withdrawal from the oil fields, Israel would have a positive balance of payments (9/17/80). That same person said two years earlier that the government of Israel (from which he withdrew) had placed a noose around his neck. He was referring to the Camp David agreements (Ha'aretz, 11/3/78). In the course of the whole peace negotiations neither an expert nor an economics advisor was consulted, and the Prime Minister himself, who lacks knowledge and expertise in economics, in a mistaken initiative, asked the U.S. to give us a loan rather than a grant, due to his wish to maintain our respect and the respect of the U.S. towards us. See Ha'aretz1/5/79. Jerusalem Post, 9/7/79. Prof Asaf Razin, formerly a senior consultant in the Treasury, strongly criticized the conduct of the negotiations; Ha'aretz, 5/5/79. Ma'ariv, 9/7/79. As to matters concerning the oil fields and Israel's energy crisis, see the interview with Mr. Eitan Eisenberg, a government advisor on these matters, Ma'arive Weekly, 12/12/78. The Energy Minister, who personally signed the Camp David agreements and the evacuation of Sdeh Alma, has since emphasized the seriousness of our condition from the point of view of oil supplies more than once...see Yediot Ahronot, 7/20/79. Energy Minister Modai even admitted that the government did not consult him at all on the subject of oil during the Camp David and Blair House negotiations. Ha'aretz, 8/22/79.

10. Many sources report on the growth of the armaments budget in Egypt and on intentions to give the army preference in a peace epoch budget over domestic needs for which a peace was allegedly obtained. See former Prime Minister Mamduh Salam in an interview 12/18/77, Treasury Minister Abd El Sayeh in an interview 7/25/78, and the paper Al Akhbar, 12/2/78 which clearly stressed that the military budget will receive first priority, despite the peace. This is what former Prime Minister Mustafa Khalil has stated in his cabinet's programmatic document which was presented to Parliament, 11/25/78. See English translation, ICA, FBIS, Nov. 27. 1978, pp. D 1-10. According to these sources, Egypt's military budget increased by 10% between fiscal 1977 and 1978, and the process still goes on. A Saudi source divulged that the Egyptians plan to increase their militmy budget by 100% in the next two years; Ha'aretz, 2/12/79 and Jerusalem Post, 1/14/79.

11. Most of the economic estimates threw doubt on Egypt's ability to reconstruct its economy by 1982. See Economic Intelligence Unit, 1978 Supplement, "The Arab Republic of Egypt"; E. Kanovsky, "Recent Economic Developments in the Middle East," Occasional Papers, The Shiloah Institution, June 1977; Kanovsky, "The Egyptian Economy Since the Mid-Sixties, The Micro Sectors," Occasional Papers, June 1978; Robert McNamara, President of World Bank, as reported in Times, London, 1/24/78.

12. See the comparison made by the researeh of the Institute for Strategic Studies in London, and research camed out in the Center for Strategic Studies of Tel Aviv University, as well as the research by the British scientist, Denis Champlin, Military Review, Nov. 1979, ISS: The Military Balance 1979-1980, CSS; Security Arrangements in Sinai...by Brig. Gen. (Res.) A Shalev, No. 3.0 CSS; The Military Balance and the Military Options after the Peace Treaty with Egypt, by Brig. Gen. (Res.) Y. Raviv, No.4, Dec. 1978, as well as many press reports including El Hawadeth, London, 3/7/80; El Watan El Arabi, Paris, 12/14/79.

13. As for religious ferment in Egypt and the relations between Copts and Moslems see the series of articles published in the Kuwaiti paper, El Qabas, 9/15/80. The English author Irene Beeson reports on the rift between Moslems and Copts, see: Irene Beeson, Guardian, London, 6/24/80, and Desmond Stewart, Middle East Internmational, London 6/6/80. For other reports see Pamela Ann Smith, Guardian, London, 12/24/79; The Christian Science Monitor 12/27/79 as well as Al Dustour, London, 10/15/79; El Kefah El Arabi, 10/15/79.

14. Arab Press Service, Beirut, 8/6-13/80. The New Republic, 8/16/80, Der Spiegel as cited by Ha'aretz, 3/21/80, and 4/30-5/5/80; The Economist, 3/22/80; Robert Fisk, Times, London, 3/26/80; Ellsworth Jones, Sunday Times, 3/30/80.

15. J.P. Peroncell Hugoz, Le Monde, Paris 4/28/80; Dr. Abbas Kelidar, Middle East Review, Summer 1979; Conflict Studies, ISS, July 1975; Andreas Kolschitter, Der Zeit, (Ha'aretz, 9/21/79) Economist Foreign Report, 10/10/79, Afro-Asian Affairs, London, July 1979.

16. Arnold Hottinger, "The Rich Arab States in Trouble," The New York Review of Books, 5/15/80; Arab Press Service, Beirut, 6/25-7/2/80; U.S. News and World Report, 11/5/79 as well as El Ahram, 11/9/79; El Nahar El Arabi Wal Duwali, Paris 9/7/79; El Hawadeth, 11/9/79; David Hakham, Monthly Review, IDF, Jan.-Feb. 79.

17. As for Jordan's policies and problems see El Nahar El Arabi Wal Duwali, 4/30/79, 7/2/79; Prof. Elie Kedouri, Ma'ariv 6/8/79; Prof. Tanter, Davar 7/12/79; A. Safdi, Jerusalem Post, 5/31/79; El Watan El Arabi 11/28/79; El Qabas, 11/19/79. As for PLO positions see: The resolutions of the Fatah Fourth Congress, Damascus, August 1980. The Shefa'amr program of the Israeli Arabs was published in Ha'aretz, 9/24/80, and by Arab Press Report 6/18/80. For facts and figures on immigration of Arabs to Jordan, see Amos Ben Vered, Ha'aretz, 2/16/77; Yossef Zuriel, Ma'ariv 1/12/80. As to the PLO's position towards Israel see Shlomo Gazit, Monthly Review; July 1980; Hani El Hasan in an interview, Al Rai Al'Am, Kuwait 4/15/80; Avi Plaskov, "The Palestinian Problem," Survival, ISS, London Jan. Feb. 78; David Gutrnann, "The Palestinian Myth," Commentary, Oct. 75; Bernard Lewis, "The Palestinians and the PLO," Commentary Jan. 75; Monday Morning, Beirut, 8/18-21/80; Journal of Palestine Studies, Winter 1980.

18. Prof. Yuval Neeman, "Samaria--The Basis for Israel's Security," Ma'arakhot 272-273, May/June 1980; Ya'akov Hasdai, "Peace, the Way and the Right to Know," Dvar Hashavua, 2/23/80. Aharon Yariv, "Strategic Depth--An Israeli Perspective," Ma'arakhot 270-271, October 1979; Yitzhak Rabin, "Israel's Defense Problems in the Eighties," Ma'arakhot October 1979.

19. Ezra Zohar, In the Regime's Pliers (Shikmona, 1974); Motti Heinrich, Do We have a Chance Israel, Truth Versus Legend (Reshafim, 1981).

20. Henry Kissinger, "The Lessons of the Past," The Washington Review Vol 1, Jan. 1978; Arthur Ross, "OPEC's Challenge to the West," The Washington Quarterly, Winter, 1980; Walter Levy, "Oil and the Decline of the West," Foreign Affairs, Summer 1980; Special Report--"Our Armed Forees-Ready or Not?" U.S. News and World Report 10/10/77; Stanley Hoffman, "Reflections on the Present Danger," The New York Review of Books 3/6/80; Time 4/3/80; Leopold Lavedez "The illusions of SALT" Commentary Sept. 79; Norman Podhoretz, "The Present Danger," Commentary March 1980; Robert Tucker, "Oil and American Power Six Years Later," Commentary Sept. 1979; Norman Podhoretz, "The Abandonment of Israel," Commentary July 1976; Elie Kedourie, "Misreading the Middle East," Commentary July 1979.

21. According to figures published by Ya'akov Karoz, Yediot Ahronot, 10/17/80, the sum total of anti-Semitic incidents recorded in the world in 1979 was double the amount recorded in 1978. In Germany, France, and Britain the number of anti-Semitic incidents was many times greater in that year. In the U.S. as well there has been a sharp increase in anti-Semitic incidents which were reported in that article. For the new anti-Semitism, see L. Talmon, "The New Anti-Semitism," The New Republic, 9/18/1976; Barbara Tuchman, "They poisoned the Wells," Newsweek 2/3/75.

Dalzi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahmad Aown

I bet you Dalzi, Not many members will participate and contribute intellectually to your thread. And if any, then you would experience hell trying to open their eyes, for our National Maturity has not gone beyond the Daily person to person Criticism. To The general Lebanese public, (What W.J Said and how SF responded) is the Ultimate Political Maturity.

Exactly Ahmad Aown... The article says it all, they even bet on our stupidity.

The Israeli specialists assume that, on the whole, the Arabs will pay no attention to their serious discussions of the future, and the Lebanon war has proved them right. So why should they not continue with their old methods of persuading other Israelis?

In the framework of such critical worship it must be assumed that Israel has always "good intentions" and only "makes mistakes," and therefore such a plan would not be a matter for discussion--exactly as the Biblical genocides committed by Jews are not mentioned.

So long, therefore, as the situation exists in which Israel is really a "closed society" to the rest of the world, because the world wants to close its eyes, the publication and even the beginning of the realization of such a plan is realistic and feasible.

Hye4Lebanon

if this plan exsists, then why withdraw from gaza?

Lebanese_Nationalist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalzi

Exactly Ahmad Aown... The article says it all, they even bet on our stupidity.

The Israeli specialists assume that, on the whole, the Arabs will pay no attention to their serious discussions of the future, and the Lebanon war has proved them right. So why should they not continue with their old methods of persuading other Israelis?

In the framework of such critical worship it must be assumed that Israel has always "good intentions" and only "makes mistakes," and therefore such a plan would not be a matter for discussion--exactly as the Biblical genocides committed by Jews are not mentioned.

So long, therefore, as the situation exists in which Israel is really a "closed society" to the rest of the world, because the world wants to close its eyes, the publication and even the beginning of the realization of such a plan is realistic and feasible.

Is it feasible and realistic? How can the Israelis occupy such a vast area of land, taking into account their relatively low numbers? Would the US and the rest of the international community allow such a plan to occur?

I think the dream of a greater Israel is dead because peace treaties have been signed with Egypt and Jordan, with a de-facto peace treaty in effect with Syria. Nice article Dalzi, but this fear mongering doesn't work on me.

Dalzi

Thanks for the pic.. it was supposed to be up there, we'll put it up later

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

How would the Jews be able to control all those patches of land with their limited population while we're looking at areas like Beirut, Damascus, Cairo, Baghdad and Amman getting into Israel.

No need to wonder Dry Ice, they have it all planned and besides it worked in for tens of years while they occupied the south. Got what they wanted by simply following the "Pay them, own them" logic.

Here's what they have to say to your question:

The answer to that is the method of ruling by means of "Haddad forces" or of "Village Associations" (also known as "Village Leagues"): local forces under "leaders" completely dissociated from the population, not having even any feudal or party structure (such as the Phalangists have, for example). The "states" proposed by Yinon are "Haddadland" and "Village Associations," and their armed forces will be, no doubt, quite similar. In addition, Israeli military superiority in such a situation will be much greater than it is even now, so that any movement of revolt will be "punished" either by mass humiliation as in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, or by bombardment and obliteration of cities, as in Lebanon now (June 1982), or by both. In order to ensure this, the plan, as explained orally, calls for the establishment of Israeli garrisons in focal places between the mini states, equipped with the necessary mobile destructive forces. In fact, we have seen something like this in Haddadland and we will almost certainly soon see the first example of this system functioning either in South Lebanon or in all Lebanon.