The Zionist Plan for the Middle East

[Ahmad Aown]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Democracy is a big topic, while Israel is not a perfect democratic state its elections are still fairly democratic and I was addressing those Arab Israelis who are voting, not the Palestinians per se...

You're branching out in so many other topics now... the main point I was advancing here is that Israel would very reluctantly (if ever) look to increase its Arab population - that would be the end of this racist state.

I wasn't discussing Israel's democracy but rather the population factor...

Dry Ice

As you said, Israel is a Racist State, This is what I was trying to highlight when I Addressed the Democracy issue. I have no intention to criticize you, My Purpose is to point out that occupation has millions of Means to suppress.

Racism is counter to Democracy, and this was my whole point.

Those people are Vampires, their History Speaks for them,

I'll quote Saadah again:

ان فيكم قوة لو فعلت لغيّرت وجه التاريخ

Many people have misquoted Saadah and Mis-understood him.
For when he addressed power, he meant the Power of Knowledge, The Power of Potential, The Power of Innovation, The Power of Will, The Power of Mind, The Power That lies Dormant within Us.
How do we Explore such power?

I Just Heard on NTV, that a Lebanese Student in France (Michael 3beid) has discovered a Cure for Cancer.

Have you heard of Hassan Kamel Al Sabbah, a Lebanese Inventor, who has 43 Inventions Registered in His Name with General Electric. The Most Important is the Conversion of Solar Energy. And you know what, he was Assasinated by American Jews just before he was heading to Saudi Arabia to Execute his Invention and Generate Electrical Power in the Desert.

Need I mention Prominent Lebanese (SYRIANS) who have left their Marks in the advancement of Science!

This is the power that Saadah was Addressing.

And without this Power we can not stop any Plan.

The Question is: Is it enough to be Proud of our Acheivements abroad. In Fact this should be provocative for us to keep our Brains Inhouse Rather. and this is when we can Change the Course of History. Not Only Denying the Jewish State from their Evil Plans and Intentions.

[erzallubnan]

One of the best definitions of Zionism I've ever read:

Zionism can now be defined as the political movement which wraps and camouflages itself in the Jewish faith, having as its primary mission the destruction of all sovereign national governments, religions and social structures with the objective of removing these obstacles to the establishment of a one world global government: the "New World Order." - Ted Lang

[jiugiusti]

Now that we know the zionist project.
What is the project of syria and iran?
Thank you.

[chafic]

I think that this is more like an essay, rather than a "Zionist Plan for the Middle East". When and how was that plan adopted?
The article talks about dissolving the whole region into sectarian states, changing regimes, doing this and that. Now we are in the year 2007, 25 years later, and none of that happened. We have to note well that the authors says that the proposed plan has to be carried during the eighties, for some reasons that he mentions briefly.
Ultimately, Lebanon is not divided according to his proposed scenario (something which he holds as a certainty), Syria still has the same regime, so does Egypt, Jordan, most of the countries of the Arab Peninsula, the Sinai is not occupied.....

Now few random comments about the article:
1- The author starts by claiming that "The Arab Moslem world, therefore, is not the major strategic problem which we shall face in the Eighties, despite the fact that it carries the main threat against Israel, due to its growing military might". The rest of the article is all dedicated to plans of how and why to dissolve Arab states into smaller sectarian ones. Why do that if these countries do not pose a strategical threat?
2- The author criticizes the peace treaty signed with Egypt, saying it is treachery. At the same time, the author proposes the toppling of the Jordanian regime

There is no chance that Jordan will continue to exist in its present structure for a long time, and Israel's policy, both in war and in peace, ought to be directed at the liquidation of Jordan under the present regime and the transfer of power to the Palestinian majority

.
By 1994, Israel signs a peace treaty with Jordan, after which Jordan got back around 400sq km and bigger water quota from the Jordan River.
3- The author says that "an Iraqi-Irani war will tear the...", which make it seem as if this war is to be expected. However, the Iraqi-Iranian war was already taking place by june 1982, since it actually started in 1980.

........

There are many points that I lost the track of.

Now seriously, how much does that seem like a "Zionist Plan for the Middle East"?
One speculation that ended up to be close from reality is the division of Iraq. However, it came totally out of context. When the Iraq was invaded by the US, it was rather like a devastated state, not the powerful military state he describes. And furthermore, the division of Iraq into smaller states is not evident even at this very moment, nor will it be beneficial for Israel, on the long or short term. Ultimately, there would be a major state backed up by Iran, a country quite opposed to Israel, especially after the islamic revolution of 1979.

For a first reading, this story doesn't make lot of sense to me, or at least, it could be labeled as Zionist plan for the ME

[Ahmad Aown]

Originally Posted by jiugiusti

Now that we know the zionist project.
What is the project of syria and iran?
Thank you.

As Usual jiugiusti, You always try to Focus on Off Topics.
Stick to the topic of the thread, and if you wish to discuss the Plans of Syria and Iran, Then you are free to start a new thread for such purpose.

Your Contribution is highly appreciated, and we need to benefit from your knowledge about this topic. Would you be generous enough to enrich us with your Positive Contribution.
Thanks

[jiugiusti]

Originally Posted by Ahmad Aown

As Usual jiugiusti, You always try to Focus on Off Topics.
Stick to the topic of the thread, and if you wish to discuss the Plans of Syria and Iran, Then you are free to start a new thread for such purpose.

Your Contribution is highly appreciated, and we need to benefit from your knowledge about this topic. Would you be generous enough to enrich us with your Positive Contribution.
Thanks

I don't think in terms of ennemis/friends but in opponents/allies.
I consider Isreal is an eternal opponent as far lebanon is concerned.
And the only way to protect our interests is to have either
(1) One secular lebanon with one people
or
(2) One federal lebanon where each community protect its interests

In both ways, lebanon can work for better education, better economy and therefore Isreal will take us into consideration.

But and here's is the eternal dilemma, since many lebanese don't believe in lebanon but in the interests of foreign (regional and international) powers, lebanon won't ever be considered neither by israel nor by mouzambic.

Till the time we begin dealing with the ennemy within us (we lebanese), it is too soon to think about fighting israel or any other opponent. And till that day comes, I think lebanon will cease to exist....

[Ahmad Aown]

Originally Posted by chafic

I think that this is more like an essay, rather than a "Zionist Plan for the Middle East". When and how was that plan adopted?
The article talks about dissolving the whole region into sectarian states, changing regimes, doing this and that. Now we are in the year 2007, 25 years later, and none of that happened. We have to note well that the authors says that the proposed plan has to be carried during the eighties, for some reasons that he mentions briefly.
Ultimately, Lebanon is not divided according to his proposed scenario (something which he holds as a certainty), Syria still has the same regime, so does Egypt, Jordan, most of the countries of the Arab Peninsula, the Sinai is not occupied.....

Now few random comments about the article:
1- The author starts by claiming that "The Arab Moslem world, therefore, is not the major strategic problem which we shall face in the Eighties, despite the fact that it carries the main threat against Israel, due to its growing military might". The rest of the article is all dedicated to plans of how and why to dissolve Arab states into smaller sectarian ones. Why do that if these countries do not pose a strategical threat?
2- The author criticizes the peace treaty signed with Egypt, saying it is treachery. At the same time, the author proposes the toppling of the Jordanian regime .
By 1994, Israel signs a peace treaty with Jordan, after which Jordan got back around 400sq km and bigger water quota from the Jordan River.
3- The author says that "an Iraqi-Irani war will tear the...", which make it seem as if this war is to be expected. However, the Iraqi-Iranian war was already taking place by june 1982, since it actually started in 1980.

........

There are many points that I lost the track of.

Now seriously, how much does that seem like a "Zionist Plan for the Middle East"?
One speculation that ended up to be close from reality is the division of Iraq. However, it came totally out of context. When the Iraq was invaded by the US, it was rather like a devastated state, not the powerful military state he describes. And furthermore, the division of Iraq into smaller states is not evident even at this very moment, nor will it be beneficial for Israel, on the long or short term. Ultimately, there would be a major state backed up by Iran, a country quite opposed to Israel, especially after the islamic revolution of 1979.

For a first reading, this story doesn't make lot of sense to me, or at least, it could be labeled as Zionist plan for the ME

chafic

1- This is a Plan, and the Source is provided for you to Verify.

2- Being it a Plan does not Necessarily mean that it is doomed for Success. So why it's Goals were not acheived in the eighties, this is subject to many factors, But can you Deny that several Attempts were made By the Israelis towards reaching their Goals?

- Remember the Israeli Invasion in 1982 which lasted Two Decades,
- Remember the Lebanese Civil War, and the many promotions for dividing Lebanon into Secterian States.
- Remember the 17 May Agreement that enforced on the Lebanese Government By Israel during President Gemayel's Term.
- Remember the Iraqi Invasion 1 & 2,
- Remember how G.W.Bush and his Neo-Cons Turned Iraq into a Democratic Heaven, The Average Death Toll in Iraq per Day Exceeds what Sadam was sentenced to Death For in the Dujeil Masacre.
- Remeber Bin Laden and the Rise of Al Qaeda, and how he did not exist in Iraq during Sadam's Regime, and How theu Exist Strongly now under the US Democratic Rule of Iraq.
Redmember, Remember, Remember,,,,

All these and Hundreds of other Incidents and Events, fall into place for the Zionist Plan.

It did not fully happen, because there are people who are fighting against it, But no one can deny that it is a plan and Israel is Severely trying to acheive its Goals.

[Ahmad Aown]

Originally Posted by jiugiusti

I don't think in terms of ennemis/friends but in opponents/allies.
I consider Isreal is an eternal opponent as far lebanon is concerned.
And the only way to protect our interests is to have either
(1) One secular lebanon with one people
or
(2) One federal lebanon where each community protect its interests

In both ways, lebanon can work for better education, better economy and therefore Isreal will take us into consideration.

But and here's is the eternal dilemma, since many lebanese don't believe in lebanon but in the interests of foreign (regional and international) powers, lebanon won't ever be considered neither by israel nor by mouzambic.

Till the time we begin dealing with the ennemy within us (we lebanese), it is too soon to think about fighting israel or any other opponent. And till that day comes, I think lebanon will cease to exist....

I Like your Point, The Enemy within Us, This is it.
Ignorance of who we are and What we are.
Let's Focus on That, and that alone is a start in the battle against Israel.
Thanks

[jiugiusti]

Originally Posted by Ahmad Aown

I Like your Point, The Enemy within Us, This is it.
Ignorance of who we are and What we are.
Let's Focus on That, and that alone is a start in the battle against Israel.
Thanks

Ahmad,
I know where you come from; I read Saadé a lot.
But, spanish, german, irish, africans, etc.. decided at a certain time in history to 'be' american and built an empire.

We should first, all of us residents of lebanon, decide to be just 'lebanese' and build an empire... Unless we do that, we will stay in constant internal conflicts.

[Ahmad Aown]

Originally Posted by jiugiusti

Ahmad,
I know where you come from; I read Saadé a lot.
But, spanish, german, irish, africans, etc.. decided at a certain time in history to 'be' american and built an empire.

We should first, all of us residents of lebanon, decide to be just 'lebanese' and build an empire... Unless we do that, we will stay in constant internal conflicts.

jiugiusti

spanish, german, irish, africans, etc.. Did not Decide to be Americans, The United States of America Enhanced their Former Identity into the Identity of the Land they Inhabited.

Why don't you look at it this way, If Spanish decided to maintain their Spanish Identity, and so do the French and Dutch and English ... then The U.S would Not have become an Empire, Don't you think so?

It is Exactly the Case with Us, as long as we Deny our True Identity, and insist on un-necessary Narrower Identities, (Like Spanish in The U.S) Then we would never be able to become anything but Fragmented potentials for internal Conflicts, Let alone an Empire.
Lebanese? So Be It. But Just Like a state within a whole Nation. Enjoying The Nation's Resources as much as Contributing to it.
If you did not come accross such a concept in Saadah's Works, Then I advise you to look for Such in his Book, (The Enemeies of Arabs, The Enemies of Lebanon).