Why the Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't

[Stella]

I never came accross this aspect before highlighted by Thomas Friedman, about why the Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't.

The "single-mindedness of the European Zionists" helped to create a homeland in the end, "they came out of a culture of sharp edges and right angles. They were cold, hard men who always understood the difference between success and failure and between words and deeds."...."They were never part of the Middle Eastern kaleidoscope, where today's enemy could be tomorrow's friend. For the jews coming out of Europe, today's enemy was tomorrow's enemy...."
"Men in Arab societies always tended to bend more, life there always moved in ambiguous semicircles, never right angles... In Arab societies there was always some way to cushion failure with rhetoric and enable the worst of enemies to sit down and have coffee together, maybe even send each other bouquets."..
"Islamic society always threw a web over men that restrained them, but the European Zionists came out of a different culture and faith and they were not schackled by any webs. That was how they made a state. The Sephardim, the Arab Jews, never could have built Israel. They would have had coffee with the Palestinians instead."


What do you think about these cultural differences? Can we trace back the root causes to this as well? I am interested to see opinions from both sides.

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by Stella

I never came accross this aspect before highlighted by Thomas Friedman, about why the Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't.

The "single-mindedness of the European Zionists" helped to create a homeland in the end, "they came out of a culture of sharp edges and right angles. They were cold, hard men who always understood the difference between success and failure and between words and deeds."...."They were never part of the Middle Eastern kaleidoscope, where today's enemy could be tomorrow's friend. For the jews coming out of Europe, today's enemy was tomorrow's enemy...."
"Men in Arab societies always tended to bend more, life there always moved in ambiguous semicircles, never right angles... In Arab societies there was always some way to cushion failure with rhetoric and enable the worst of enemies to sit down and have coffee together, maybe even send each other bouquets."..
"Islamic society always threw a web over men that restrained them, but the European Zionists came out of a different culture and faith and they were not schackled by any webs. That was how they made a state. The Sephardim, the Arab Jews, never could have built Israel. They would have had coffee with the Palestinians instead."

What do you think about these cultural differences? Can we trace back the root causes to this as well? I am interested to see opinions from both sides.

From the perspective of comparing the active northern europeans to the lazy middle easterns (not generalizing, i am sure there are exceptions) the analysis makes sense. The europeans have a clearer vision about their priorities and are more calculating, they deal with facts and are more objective in assessing reality; that of course will offer an advantage in a conflict.

The main reason for the cultural deficit is centuries of ottoman occupation that prevented the sociological fabrics from developing naturally, and when the ottoman empire came to an abrupt end by the end of WWI arabs entered the new world overnight, to a certain extent they stepped into the 20th century from a state of mind closer to the 15th century; even the notion of a country was foreign to many arab leaders back then. To desert beduins, borders on maps are equivalent to lines in the sand, they pretty much mean nothing. Arabs were very vulnerable during that transition; the Europeans took advantage of the fact, and dissected the region in a way that prevents any new ottoman empire from ever rising again, and in the process gave a small piece of land to the jews and it turned out to be the headache of the century.

Now however Israel is serving a geopolitical purpose in the region, and even if the Jewish people themselves decide to leave the western powers will not allow it before the natural resources of the arab countries are consumed.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Originally Posted by Stella

I never came accross this aspect before highlighted by Thomas Friedman, about why the Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't.

The "single-mindedness of the European Zionists" helped to create a homeland in the end, "they came out of a culture of sharp edges and right angles. They were cold, hard men who always understood the difference between success and failure and between words and deeds."...."They were never part of the Middle Eastern kaleidoscope, where today's enemy could be tomorrow's friend. For the jews coming out of Europe, today's enemy was tomorrow's enemy...."
"Men in Arab societies always tended to bend more, life there always moved in ambiguous semicircles, never right angles... In Arab societies there was always some way to cushion failure with rhetoric and enable the worst of enemies to sit down and have coffee together, maybe even send each other bouquets."..
"Islamic society always threw a web over men that restrained them, but the European Zionists came out of a different culture and faith and they were not schackled by any webs. That was how they made a state. The Sephardim, the Arab Jews, never could have built Israel. They would have had coffee with the Palestinians instead."


What do you think about these cultural differences? Can we trace back the root causes to this as well? I am interested to see opinions from both sides.

Biggest cultural difference I see between Israelis and Arabs. Israelis unite in the face of aggression, while Arabs, like in Lebanon & Iraq, are easily manipulated and instead of uniting they divide. They use change to settle internal differences and start killing each other like Hamas & Fateh, rather than unite as one against Israel. It speaks volumes about the differnce between the two civilizations and why Israel thrives, while Palestine has ceased to exist.

[nizaryahya]

It is very weird to say Arabs and mean solely the Palestinian Arabs.
Obviously, and ironically, there are many Arab states versus one Jewish state.

Also it is very comforting for Freidman to blame it on the cultural difference and ignore the interference of the colonizing powers that destroyed the Arab revolution and created the tribal emirates here and there.

It is also weird to ignore the 160,000 soldiers in Iraq. Let alone those in bases all along the gulf. I just wonder how Israel would have succeeded had those been attacking Tel Aviv for example!

That said, there are many factors other than the colonization and the western interference that are innate to the mentality enherited from the Ottoman's as Dark Angel pointed out.
This mentality of slow reform and tolerance with the goverment even if totally corrupt as long as it is a sunni-muslim government is what kept the Ottoman's on top of the area and what keeps the corrupt regimes now.

There was and there still is an uprising. It was defeated by Israel and the Western support to Israel and the corruption in the Arab regimes. However, these are not cultural issues as much as they are social dynamic issues. The Arab population is not convinced of the permanancy of the borders and thus the change the elites were working for and were expecting is beyound building a state in Palestine.

BTW., What is wrong with Arab jews and Arab palestinians drinking coffee instead of fighting as they were doing for long? Freidman prefers that we keep fighting for the interests of his great military-oil-industrial complex?

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Stella

I never came accross this aspect before highlighted by Thomas Friedman, about why the Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't.

The "single-mindedness of the European Zionists" helped to create a homeland in the end, "they came out of a culture of sharp edges and right angles. They were cold, hard men who always understood the difference between success and failure and between words and deeds."...."They were never part of the Middle Eastern kaleidoscope, where today's enemy could be tomorrow's friend. For the jews coming out of Europe, today's enemy was tomorrow's enemy...."

True; this is exactly what they believe.

"Men in Arab societies always tended to bend more, life there always moved in ambiguous semicircles, never right angles... In Arab societies there was always some way to cushion failure with rhetoric and enable the worst of enemies to sit down and have coffee together, maybe even send each other bouquets."..

Very true, Arab hospitality and stupidity led us to where we are now. If they had stood up "one" (like others do) to butcher the invadors, they would've saved us all this trouble.

"Islamic society always threw a web over men that restrained them, but the European Zionists came out of a different culture and faith and they were not schackled by any webs.

Let me tell you what this web is: "Peole fear God".

That was how they made a state. The Sephardim, the Arab Jews, never could have built Israel. They would have had coffee with the Palestinians instead."

Again true, because they would prefer to be humans rather than animals. When Zionists came to Palestine they had a plan to genocide Palestinians because that's what their brothers did when they took over western countries. The rule is that you never get the place unless you get rid of the people who inhabit it.

What do you think about these cultural differences? Can we trace back the root causes to this as well? I am interested to see opinions from both sides.

The Palestinians felt sorry for the Jews when they first came to Palestine. How dumb can people get? If someone came to take over Austarlia for example, would we welcome or stand together and resist?
I can say that when Jamal Abd Lnaser died Arabism died.

All in all, can Friedman conclude who is the more peaceful and tolerant?

[Abufijli]

Originally Posted by Stella

I never came accross this aspect before highlighted by Thomas Friedman, about why the Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't.

The "single-mindedness of the European Zionists" helped to create a homeland in the end, "they came out of a culture of sharp edges and right angles. They were cold, hard men who always understood the difference between success and failure and between words and deeds."...."They were never part of the Middle Eastern kaleidoscope, where today's enemy could be tomorrow's friend. For the jews coming out of Europe, today's enemy was tomorrow's enemy...."
"Men in Arab societies always tended to bend more, life there always moved in ambiguous semicircles, never right angles... In Arab societies there was always some way to cushion failure with rhetoric and enable the worst of enemies to sit down and have coffee together, maybe even send each other bouquets."..
"Islamic society always threw a web over men that restrained them, but the European Zionists came out of a different culture and faith and they were not schackled by any webs. That was how they made a state. The Sephardim, the Arab Jews, never could have built Israel. They would have had coffee with the Palestinians instead."


What do you think about these cultural differences? Can we trace back the root causes to this as well? I am interested to see opinions from both sides.

Not true, they made a state out of murder deceit and war, and they will lose this state for the same reasons.

[Lebanese_Nationalist]

It could be that the Jews see the bigger picture while the Palestinians are reactionaries who fail to recognize the long term consequences of their actions.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Lebanese_Nationalist

It could be that the Jews see the bigger picture while the Palestinians are reactionaries who fail to recognize the long term consequences of their actions.

[]. Shou hal philosophy?
The Palestinians already had a state and they were the most educated amongst the entire Arabs. Ijit Israel and it took their land. Hard to grasp?

[Lebanese_Nationalist]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

[]. Shou hal philosophy?
The Palestinians already had a state and they were the most educated amongst the entire Arabs. Ijit Israel and it took their land. Hard to grasp?

The Israelis calculated their every move and looked at the negative and positive aspects. They would wait for the right opportunity to strike. The Palestinians on the other hand would ally with the Nazis, hijack planes, commit the only terrorist attack in Olympic history, try to take over Jordan, try to rid Lebanon of its Christian population, and ally with Saddam Hussein in his invasion of Kuwait.

The Palestinians are also known for their sheer hypocrisy. The backbone of the PLO argument against the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza was that land acquired by means of war was not legitimate territory. Sounds good, right? Well, they pissed all over this argument by supporting Saddam in his military invasion of Kuwait.

Do you still wonder why there isn't a Palestinian state?

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Lebanese_Nationalist

The Israelis calculated their every move and looked at the negative and positive aspects. They would wait for the right opportunity to strike. The Palestinians on the other hand would ally with the Nazis, hijack planes, commit the only terrorist attack in Olympic history, try to take over Jordan, try to rid Lebanon of its Christian population, and ally with Saddam Hussein in his invasion of Kuwait.

The Palestinians are also known for their sheer hypocrisy. The backbone of the PLO argument against the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza was that land acquired by means of war was not legitimate territory. Sounds good, right? Well, they pissed all over this argument by supporting Saddam in his military invasion of Kuwait.

Do you still wonder why there isn't a Palestinian state?

Rock vs Tank.