Turkey

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by KevKaz

ANA LEBNANI MY FRIEND, DONT BRING THAT BACK AGAIN, WE ALWAYS PUT LEBANON AWALLAN. Please give a small visit to our offices in Bourdj Hammoud, and you'll see all the lebanese flags.
We always worked for lebanon, and as i told u b4, we were d only ones who put a law during the war forbidding leaving lebanon. we did this for armenia? or for lebanon that we love?

as for my display picture, when i put armenian flag, that doesnt mean i have lebanon 2nd in my mind. This flag is to show im from armenian origin, and will never forget my origin

it may be difficult for you to understand this, but i will say it in the clearest way possible:

I am 100% an Armenian.

I am 100% a Lebanese.

Most of the times it's not easy to have a dual identity. But if I could change my identities, I wouldn't change anything about them.

I'm proud to be a Lebanese Armenian, even if that means that I'm 200% a human being.

أنا أتفهّم ما تقولان جيداً
في أي حال، الهوية إشكالية في العالم كله وليس عندكم فحسب

فنحن مثلاً لدينا صراع هوية هل أن لبنان أولاً؟ أم قضايا العرب؟ أم المسلمين؟
هل لبنان عربي؟ إلخ
هذا سؤال الهوية، من نحن؟ وهو سؤال شائك وبالغ الصعوبة
وأنا شخصياً أجد نفسي في الهوية العالمية مع ما يعني ذلك من تحايل على سؤال هوية

لذلك، أنا لا أشكك في انتمائكما إلى لبنان ولا يحق لي ذلك فأنا من الذين يواجهون التخوين والنبذ والاقصاء
لكن، هذا لا يمنع النقاش. فما يحصل هنا ليس إصدار أحكام بل طرح أسئلة

أريد أن أستوضح
حين تقولان: نحن
من تعنيان؟
نحن التي تجمعكم والشعب الأرمني أم الشعب اللبناني؟

[KevKaz]

Picasso, by We, i can mean, lebanese ppl, by We i can mean Lebanese armenians, by We i can mean Armenians in general.
For others "We" can mean his religion or ethnicity or "Ta2ife" ...

We (Lebanese) always worked hard for the prosperity of our country
We( lebanese armenians) always felt 100% lebanese
We ( Armenians in general) fight for the armenian cause

[montmartre]

It depends on the subject. Don't get me wrong, i don't mean we change our minds that's not what i'm saying. For example, when thare is a lebanese issue, when we say WE that means we the lebanese. When there is something about armenians all over the world, we say we the armenians. But we never say we without specifying who are we talking about. We are part of the Lebanese, and part of the Armenians.
It's just like in Math. The intersection of two Venn Diagrams who has the properties of the two. But all Lebanese are not Armenians, and all Armenians are not Lebanese, that's why we need to specify.
And I think what you're asking is when there are conflicts, or different views between those two groups, which one will we adopt?
Well the answer is really.Being both Lebanese and Armenian we understand them both, and we will try to find a common ground between the two views.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

So, Al Jazeera put both sides of the Azerbaijani war, does that mean that it can also put "both sides" of the genocide? Since there are two differing/opposing sides and claims.... the Turks are saying exactly this, let us talk about it, discuss it, see our side too... does that make it right to do it? Would you not be insulted by it???? (Note: I am NOT advocating this!!!)

So you occupy territories, claim the inhabitants "left" (isn't that what the "israelis" say about the Palestinians? yeah there was no ETHNIC CLEANSING, they just "left" because they are "not attached to the land").... !!! and use territories to negotiate... negotiate what? Isn't that what the "israelis" tried to do in 1982-1983 , trying to impose a peace agreement by occupying territories???! Don't you know what happened to that effort? Don;t you know YOUR COUNTRY's (LEBANON) history? ??

Ba3dein, iza hal 2adde mehtammin bil 2ard, halla2 3endkon armenia, lesh ma betroo7oo t3ishoo honik iza hal 2adde bt7ebboo Armenia ?? Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying you SHOULD leave, bas baddi efham lesh..

wall, i cant go to armenia because my land diarbaker is now a turkish land. hard luck for you

by the way ya man we are here to stay..
20 years civil war
15 years syrian occupatioin and on
WE ARE HERE TO STAY
we are not going anywhere

and we will keep our armenian origin and we will transform it to our kids and our grand children. we will tell them the story of the genocide so that they will never FORGET or FORGIVE...
unless, we take our lands back
OR, Turkey acknowledges the GENOCIDE
Regards,

[Mey]

Lots of issues were discussed in this thread. However two major issues took the attention, the Armenian genocide and the refusal of Turkey as a state to acknowledge it and the questioning of the loyalty of the Armenians to Lebanon.

Questioning the loyalty of the Armenians to Lebanon is very sad and holds racist and sectarian backgrounds. Racially or Religisouly different minorities have always been questioned about their loyalty in many countries and this is dispicable to say the least.

Lebanon was created in 1943, Lebanon is versatile and has many people from different ethnic backgrounds. However we are all Lebanese.

We have Lebanese who are Kurds in origin, ofcourse they feel affinity to the Kurds (they are from Kurdish origin !!!) and also speak the Kurdish Language in addition to the Arabic.

We have Lebanese who are from Armenian origin, and ofcourse they feel affinity to the Armenians (they are from Aremnian origin !!!) and also speak the Armenian Language in addition to the Arabic.

We have Lebanese who are from Arabic origin, and ofcourse you see them sympathize and have affinity to Arabs (they are from Arab origin !!!) and also speak Arabic.

We have Lebanese from Arameic, Assyrian, Roman, Greek, Berber, origins.

This is Lebanon a melting pot, where is the problem ?

As long as you carry the Lebanese passport you are Lebanese. This is the definition of being Lebanese, those who invent other definitions are just being racist or discriminatory.

Why do you want the Armenians to give up their culture and language ??!!!!!!

Arabs in America are American citizens and they still learn Arabic and keep their culture, so they are in Australia etc....

Indians in America, Italians, etc.... Why do you want people to forget about their heritage ?

It is what makes us a special society, thats the Lebanese society and its very beautiful to see that these people from different backgrounds, different heritage, yet we are all Lebanese.

As for the Turkish presence: I support the Armenians call in refusing the Turkish presence. For those who are telling us to wake up Its Lebanon not Armenia, I tell them wake up, Turkey has not committed massacres against Armenia the country, but rather against the Armenians as a people.

Whether you like it or not the Armenians in Lebanon are Lebanese and have a say in this country just like any other Lebanese, Turkey has refused to acknowledge the Armenian pain and apologize for the massacre ! This ignorance of crime has got to stop and if we can send a message to the Turkish government through that then we will.

The Lebanese parlaiment acknowledges the Turkish massacres against Armenia, in respect to a part of the Lebanese and as a Lebanese who values all the concerns of Lebanese I would definitly join their call in refusing the Turkish presence.


The Armenians are a part of the Lebanese community (mse2be they are all Armenians)are refusing it.

If we are to build a country which cares about all its citizens, we should take all those concerns into consideration.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by Mahyar

Lots of issues were discussed in this thread. However two major issues took the attention, the Armenian genocide and the refusal of Turkey as a state to acknowledge it and the questioning of the loyalty of the Armenians to Lebanon.

Questioning the loyalty of the Armenians to Lebanon is very sad and holds racist and sectarian backgrounds. Racially or Religisouly different minorities have always been questioned about their loyalty in many countries and this is dispicable to say the least.

Lebanon was created in 1943, Lebanon is versatile and has many people from different ethnic backgrounds. However we are all Lebanese.

We have Lebanese who are Kurds in origin, ofcourse they feel affinity to the Kurds (they are from Kurdish origin !!!) and also speak the Kurdish Language in addition to the Arabic.

We have Lebanese who are from Armenian origin, and ofcourse they feel affinity to the Armenians (they are from Aremnian origin !!!) and also speak the Armenian Language in addition to the Arabic.

We have Lebanese who are from Arabic origin, and ofcourse you see them sympathize and have affinity to Arabs (they are from Arab origin !!!) and also speak Arabic.

We have Lebanese from Arameic, Assyrian, Roman, Greek, Berber, origins.

This is Lebanon a melting pot, where is the problem ?

As long as you carry the Lebanese passport you are Lebanese. This is the definition of being Lebanese, those who invent other definitions are just being racist or discriminatory.

Why do you want the Armenians to give up their culture and language ??!!!!!!

Arabs in America are American citizens and they still learn Arabic and keep their culture, so they are in Australia etc....

Indians in America, Italians, etc.... Why do you want people to forget about their heritage ?

It is what makes us a special society, thats the Lebanese society and its very beautiful to see that these people from different backgrounds, different heritage, yet we are all Lebanese.

As for the Turkish presence: I support the Armenians call in refusing the Turkish presence. For those who are telling us to wake up Its Lebanon not Armenia, I tell them wake up, Turkey has not committed massacres against Armenia the country, but rather against the Armenians as a people.

Whether you like it or not the Armenians in Lebanon are Lebanese and have a say in this country just like any other Lebanese, Turkey has refused to acknowledge the Armenian pain and apologize for the massacre ! This ignorance of crime has got to stop and if we can send a message to the Turkish government through that then we will.

The Lebanese parlaiment acknowledges the Turkish massacres against Armenia, in respect to a part of the Lebanese and as a Lebanese who values all the concerns of Lebanese I would definitly join their call in refusing the Turkish presence.


The Armenians are a part of the Lebanese community (mse2be they are all Armenians)are refusing it.

If we are to build a country who cares about all its citizens, we should take all those concerns into consideration.

Thank You

[AlGhaliboon]

Mahyar, I didn't see anyone asking the Armenians to give up in their culture, language, etc. But the Armenian protests against Turkish troops was based not on the fact that the Turkish troops have relations with "israel" and therefore harmful to our interests, but on what is essentially an Armenian issue, and as such, even though there are Lebanese citizens of Armenian origin, this does not have to be official Lebanese policy. Because if we are to follow this logic, then we would have to satisfy the foreign interests of each and every group; what is next, boycotting Turkey altogether??! Lebanese of Armenian origin should contextualize themselves into the Lebanese scene. Unfortunately, the Armenian community is closed on itself more than any other community in Lebanon, I have met Armenians who don't even speak proper Arabic, and they are born and raised in Lebanon... I think this does not bode well for incorporation into Lebanese society, and it results in more and more alienation. Having a good command of Arabic language does not in any way mean that they should give up on the Armenian language. Also I have heard a lot of anti-Muslim things from Armenians in Lebanon; I realize this is an individual thing, but there is also the issue of a certain complex in the community towards Muslims,which they are unable to transcend no matter how much they interact with us, and so on... I mean, their interaction seems to be out of sheer necessity nothing more nothing less... if they can avoid it, they would... what the Turks did has nothing to do with Islam, the Turks are also oppressing the Kurds, who are Muslims.

[AlGhaliboon]

Originally Posted by blossom

wall, i cant go to armenia because my land diarbaker is now a turkish land. hard luck for you

by the way ya man we are here to stay..
20 years civil war
15 years syrian occupatioin and on
WE ARE HERE TO STAY
we are not going anywhere

and we will keep our armenian origin and we will transform it to our kids and our grand children. we will tell them the story of the genocide so that they will never FORGET or FORGIVE...
unless, we take our lands back
OR, Turkey acknowledges the GENOCIDE
Regards,

My friend, why are you on the defensive? I did not call on you to give up on your Armenian origin, or not to pass it on to your kids... or to give up on the story of the genocide or to forget or forgive. I did not call on you to go to Armenia, frankly I do not care, and it is none of my business.

Turkey should acknolwedge the genocide; definitely. And Armenians should acknolwedge the massacre of Azerbaijanis and the ethnic cleansing of 20% of Azerbaijani territory, and must return those lands to their rightful owners (not referring to Nagorny-Karabakh!!). What you say about yourself also applies to others, namely the Azerbaijanis.

[حسن]

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

My friend, why are you on the defensive? I did not call on you to give up on your Armenian origin, or not to pass it on to your kids... or to give up on the story of the genocide or to forget or forgive. I did not call on you to go to Armenia, frankly I do not care, and it is none of my business.

Turkey should acknolwedge the genocide; definitely. And Armenians should acknolwedge the massacre of Azerbaijanis and the ethnic cleansing of 20% of Azerbaijani territory, and must return those lands to their rightful owners (not referring to Nagorny-Karabakh!!). What you say about yourself also applies to others, namely the Azerbaijanis.

Dear Al-Ghaliboon,

You are just using the same fascist rhetoric of feb 14th calamity. Indeed, what I understand from reading is that lebanese armenians are doubtful in their engagement toward lebanon if they claim that they don't like Turkey or if they call for reminding the armenian genocide. I am not armenian and not even christian and I feel hurted from reading you. So I guess the feeling of the lebanese armenians who read you and the image you give them about our Great and Glorious National Resistance that you pretend defend...

Finally, I ask you once more that nobody spoke about Armenia and Azerbaidjan. So please don't import to lebanon the conflict between these two beloved countries.

Regards
Hassan

[blossom]

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

My friend, why are you on the defensive? I did not call on you to give up on your Armenian origin, or not to pass it on to your kids... or to give up on the story of the genocide or to forget or forgive. I did not call on you to go to Armenia, frankly I do not care, and it is none of my business. .

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

Ba3dein, iza hal 2adde mehtammin bil 2ard, halla2 3endkon armenia, lesh ma betroo7oo t3ishoo honik iza hal 2adde bt7ebboo Armenia ??

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

Turkey should acknolwedge the genocide; definitely..

and why not return the armenian lands like you are saying Armenians should return the land of the azeris???? if the two cases are the same. at least, this is what you are saying.

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

And Armenians should acknolwedge the massacre of Azerbaijanis and the ethnic cleansing of 20% of Azerbaijani territory, and must return those lands to their rightful owners (not referring to Nagorny-Karabakh!!). What you say about yourself also applies to others, namely the Azerbaijanis.

well, for the last time i will say this.
1- Turkey is different than azerbeijan
2- the armenian who died in istanbul by throwing them in bosphour died because of a different cause than that in karapagh.
3- no one wants to erase the Azerbeijan existence; wherease, Turkey: osmanian sultanate and Ataturk wanted to erase the Armenian existence. and they are still continuing to do so but not with the same tool. yimkin sta7o shway.
4- since we survived from this genocide we are not going to shut up about it and forgive. we as armenians outside armenia who know exactly in each minute of the genocide what happenned. THE ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT THE LAND, it is about the culture. the issue between armenia and azerbeijan is btw states let them kill each other let them live with each other (although i completely disagree about your views that kharabagh had an azeri population and armenians killed them), it is not my (as a genocide survivour) business....
The two issues are drastically different.
you can not compare them or even put them together.
Armenian Genocide is a humanitarian issue. it is about human rightsthe right to live, to have your own culture,relgion.. etc. it is not political.

the azeri issue is a political one.