Turkey

[حسن]

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

vegojimbo ,

Maybe the Armenians should also apologize to the Azerbaijanis then, and then we can talk. Fair enough, no?

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

Enta shu 2sstak? Is division all that you see? We should not question, discuss, because it might divide people? Ya khayye 7ell 3anni, ana ra7 2ool yelli baddi 2oolo, la 2nta wa la gheyrak bye2der yemna3ni 3an hal shi. []

If you read well you will see I was calling on them to reconcile, but that can only happen if they stop refusing to see the other side of the conflict.

I didn't notice that anyone has spoken about Azerbaidjan and Armenia before you ask that Armenians (which include the lebanese ones) apologize from the Azeris... Is this calling for peace?
Why should we import in lebanon the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaidjan, instead of working for the peace between these two nations.

[Motorcity]

Alghaliboon, to get a picture of the Armenian stance against Turkey, imagine this:
One Third (1/3) of Lebanon's population was lost during the last 3 yrs of Ottoman occupation & embargo.
but still, Armineans fledding the massacres in their native homeland found our country a heaven!!

try to reflect on it!!

ba3dein, its really a shame that the Saniora of the grand Serray accepts the interferance of Turkish forces to come defend their Israeli friends, less than a 100 yr after they left our country in ashes!!

[hassanleb]

I personally sympthasize with the Armenians since they live with us and we should consider their opinions where on the other hand Turkey is thousands of miles away.

I don't believe any Armenian is proposing that we go to war with Turkey. Lebanon does have relations with the Turks and no one is objecting to that. The Armenians rejected Turkish troops on lebanese soid and their demands should be seriously considered imo.

On another note, this issue shows how hard is for people to forget the past if justice is not fully established. Looking how Armenians still feel about the Turks after almost a century, one can easily see that the Arab-Israeli conflict will never be resolved.

[KevKaz]

Me, as a Lebanese Armenian I’m really hurt by a lot of posts present here in this topic

Lebanese Armenians, are Lebanese, we said that millions of times, but we are seen as Lebanese whenever people want, and as non Lebanese whenever others want. We have helped Lebanon in the economy, we have helped Lebanon in politics, we have Lebanon in many aspects, we have paid all d Lebanese taxes, we always raised Lebanese flags and we didn’t burn Lebanese flag as many Lebanese did. We( and by we I mean Lebanese Armenians my friend, many have the right to talk about Christians, Shiites, sunits, but we don’t have d right?) And i think many of my friends who posted here doesn’t know this fact, A Lebanese Armenian party, WAS THE ONLY PARTY, who put a rule during the Lebanese war(1975-1990), whoever leaves Lebanon is thrown out from the party. So by this law, thousands of Armenians , who were willing to leave Lebanon, didn't. Welcome my friends.

Lebanese Armenians, are Lebanese , yes, but they never never forgot their origin, and will never forget it. We kept our language, tradition, churches, schools, we've some to lebanon without having 1 Lira w us, without having a shirt to wear, and look where we have reached, not only we managed ourselves, but also we helped lebanon in the economy( you can ask any economy teacher, and he will tell u by facts how armenians did that).

Lebanese armenians have ministers and representatives in the government, so i think we have the right to give our opinion, and yes we are free, as everyone feels free in lebanon. WE HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS ANY LEBANESE HAVE. We can say NO TO TURKISH SOLDIERS. yes we can. you can agree with that or not, but nobody can tell us you don’t have the right.

My friends, nobody knows what we've been through bcuz of the Armenian Genocide. We live the armenian genocide everyday. My grandfather have seen his father being slaughtered in front of his eyes. Millions of children saw that, Millions of husbands saw their pregnant wives being raped and the children being killed. Millions of wives have seen their husbands being burned. Please Think twice, being sit for 5 mins and think its your father or grandfather and grandmother before posting any reply. It was the 1st genocide in the 20th century, and the aim was keeping 1 armenian and put him in the museum, so that they remember that there was a nation called armenia.

My friends, Armenia should be 160 000 Km2 by the treaty of Sevre signed by Turkey , USA and Armenia, and now Armenia is 30 000Km2. my family is from a place called Sasoun, and i cant even go and see my homeland, Imagine my friends you never saw the place your family is from, u never saw keserwen or bsharri or ... Don't we have the right to ask for our lands? And the only way to reach there is by Making turkey recognize the armenian Genocide, bcuz after that you CAN ask for recompansation . which is the price of the blood and our lands.

As for Karabagh and the 1988 war against Azerbaijan, it was a war to get the lands back ( moukawame) It is EXACTLY LIKE THE 2000 VICTORY IN LEBANON. A BIG ARMY AGAINST A SMALL ARMY. Armenians Won and got their lands back. should lebanon apologize for the Israeli soldiers or even civilians who died in 2000 war. or even 2006 war? It was a war to get the land back.

Now i know some ppl will say, well in 1915 it was war too. in 1915 Turkey took advantage from the WWI to annihilate The armenians. It was a pre planned thing. we dont want armenia or armenians anymore. But they couldn’t do that.

We are lebanese, and by the treaty of Taef, that everydayyyyy politicians talk abt it, pls read it one more time, Armenians are listed as in the 1st 7 "tawa2ef" in Lebanon, and also in the taef, we see, ANY DECISION SHOULD BE TAKEN BY THE APPROVAL OF ALL THE MAIN TAWAEF IN LEBANON. and 95% of the lebanese armenians said NO. and Y we said no? If you read The demands of the lebanese armenians, you can see my friends, that 95% of the causes for us saying no to the turkish soldiers was pure lebanese causes. pls read them again. and sorry but i think we have the right to feel armenian and we have the right to respect our grandfathers and grandmothers. i think we have the right to respect the 1.5 million martyrs. I think we have the right to remember our history. and NO ONE has the right to make ur forget that

Imagine yourselves leaving in France, born there lived there, you are french, u pay taxes and work for france, but will u ever love ur enemy? syria iran or israel whoever you consider ur enemy. Will you forget Lebanon? Will you forget arabic language? Will you stop workin for the Lebanese cause? Will you be friends w ur enemy? Will you sell your country lebanon with good economy and money like many lebanese did from inside lebanon?

We can be 100% LEBANESE EVEN MORE LEBANESE THAN SOME IN LEBANON AND NOT FORGET OUR HISTORY AND ORIGIN. Whoever forgets his origin will have no meaning in life. LIFE IS NOT ABOUT ECONOMY AND MONEY its about self respect, and honor. Many countries as you mentioned are friends with old enemies, and let turkey Recognize the armenian genocide, let turkey give us alll our rights, let turkey give our lands back, and let the world see how armenians and turks will be the closest countries and friends.

Thank you
A LEBANESE Armenian

[AlGhaliboon]

Originally Posted by حسن

I didn't notice that anyone has spoken about Azerbaidjan and Armenia before you ask that Armenians (which include the lebanese ones) apologize from the Azeris... Is this calling for peace?
Why should we import in lebanon the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaidjan, instead of working for the peace between these two nations.

Actually the thread was not about Armenia to begin with, but since Armenians jumped in and started bashing Picasso for starting this thread, then I felt that it was time to actually also talk about this issue; why are we always supposed to see Turkey as the ultimate evil and Armenia/Armenians as the ultimate angels??? Why can't the Armenians accept for once that they too have made mistakes? We all make mistakes, we are human beings after all, we have accepted our mistakes, but I don't see them doing the same. Why? Is that too much to ask for, if for the sake of not sounding like hypocrites? Who is importing what??? So now in Lebanon we are not supposed to discuss anything but Lebanese politics because that would mean "importing" other conflicts??? You are not making any sense. Next time you decide to bash me (AGAIN, and this is the last time I am putting up with your trash), please THINK before you post. OK??! Because you are beginning to give me the impression that you are a fan of Saddam Hussein's.

[KevKaz]

should lebanon apologize for the Israeli soldiers or even civilians who died in 2000 war. or even 2006 war? It was a war to get the land back.

[AlGhaliboon]

Originally Posted by KevKaz

should lebanon apologize for the Israeli soldiers or even civilians who died in 2000 war. or even 2006 war? It was a war to get the land back.

are you saying, then, that israeli occupation of LEBANON is the same as the Azerbaijani presence on lands that were NOT inhabited by Armenians AT ALL (surrounding Nagorny-Karabakh), and which were DELIBERATELY ethnically cleansed???? Please. No one is buying this anymore; every time someone brings up your wrongdoings you bring up the genocide, tayyeb, fhemna enno ken fi genocide, bas how does that justify the massacre at Khojaly (just one example), the ethnic cleansing of Fizuli, Jebra2il, etc. ??! Don't tell me it was for the sake of ensuring the safety of the Armenian-populated enclave, because then it would also mean that "israeli" occupation of West Bank & Gaza are justified because the "israelis" say it provides them territorial "depth" and ensures the safety of Ben Gurion airport, Tel Aviv, etc. PLEASE, let us make more sense.

[KevKaz]

It was during the war of 1988, when armenians wanted to get their lands back (are you sayin nagorno - karabagh is not armenian?) when civilians died, its war, but i can ensure you that it was not a pre planned thing for the armenians. I can give me hundreds of books proofing that, written by non armenians. So during the war civilians died, during 2006 war civilians dies in israel. Did Hezbollah had the right? The intention wasnt to kill civilians, but its war and it happened. Israelis intention was to kill civilians, thats the difference.

[AlGhaliboon]

Originally Posted by KevKaz

It was during the war of 1988, when armenians wanted to get their lands back (are you sayin nagorno - karabagh is not armenian?) when civilians died, its war, but i can ensure you that it was not a pre planned thing for the armenians. I can give me hundreds of books proofing that, written by non armenians. So during the war civilians died, during 2006 war civilians dies in israel. Did Hezbollah had the right? The intention wasnt to kill civilians, but its war and it happened. Israelis intention was to kill civilians, thats the difference.

your comparisons are off the mark. first of all do not try to change the issue, the issue is NOT about Nagorny-Karabakh but about the surrounding territories which make up around 20% of Azerbaijan, and these surrounding territories had NO Armenian presence. The war was also launched by Armenians (whether in self-defense or whatever is not the point), and there was a DELIBERATE campaign for ethnic cleansing. "israel" CLAIMS, like Armenians do, that it had no intention to massacre civilians; "israel" CLAIMS, like Armenians do, that it was acting in self-defense, and that this is war and in war civilians die. "israel" CLAIMS we deliberately set up the Qana massacres, to give them a bad image, like the Armenians CLAIM about the Khojaly massacre. If you will care to check your facts, you might realize that HezbAllah fired rockets IN RETALIATION for the open war declared by "israel" and acted upon by the bombardment of Lebanese infrastructure, massacre of civilians, and so on. This was NOT the case for the Armenians; fact is, the Armenians lived in that allegedly Azerbaijani-occupied enclave, and the Azerbaijanis had not perpetrated ethnic cleansing or else there would've been no Armenians left there, and no one to say that Nagorny-Karabakh was Armenian.... but the Armenians did not give the same treatment they were given; they simply perpetrated ethnic cleansing of the surrounding territories. And you want us to accept that as "part of war"? By the same token, civilians die in war, and there was war in 1915???? Isn't that what the Turks say?!??! Can't you see how you are using the same arguments as the Turks, the "israelis", etc. ? So tell me, why should we view you in a better light than them? Just because you have gone through genocide does not mean we should turn a blind eye to what you are doing, just like just because the Jews have gone through a genocide does not mean we should turn a blind eye to what they are doing... if we are to see and condemn deliberate human rights violations, we should see and condemn ALL deliberate human rights violations, including the ones perpetrated by Armenians, or else the very concept of "human rights" would cease to exist, and in its place there would be violation of "Armenian rights", "jewish rights" etc.

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by KevKaz

its war, but i can ensure you that it was not a pre planned thing for the armenians. I can give me hundreds of books proofing that, written by non armenians. So during the war civilians died,.

إذن، أصبحت الحرب والقتل الذي تمارسه أرمينيا والضحايا المدنيون الذين يسقطون، كل ذلك وجهة نظر

وأصبح لها تبريرات وأصبحت تخضع للتنظير في الكتب. هذا يكشف كم أنّ أحفاد الضحايا يتحوّلونَ إلى جلاّدين. كما حصل مع اليهود في المحرقة. كانوا يعيشونَ في الغيتوات ويتعرّضون للتمييز العنصري ويضعهم هتلر في الأفران، انظر إليهم الآن ماذا يفعلون في فلسطين

من هذه العبارة، أنتَ فقدتَ مصداقيتك. فالحرب التي يشنها الآخرون عليكم ولو قبل قرن من الزمن ستظلون ترفعون عنوانها وتلاحقون تركيا بسببها، هل هو الاستياء من دور تركيا ورغبة أرمينيا في أن تحلّ مكانها؟

أما الحرب التي تشنونها أنتم فلها الكتب والتبرير

its war

أرأيت؟

حين تتحوّل الجنائز إلى معابر سياسية واقتصادية وأطماع بالمزيد من الأرض والثروة تُمْسي سلاحاً

So during the war civilians died

هكذا يتحدث النازيون وكل من يريد القتلَ مبرراً له