Terrorist Israeli Rabbi: stop acting like christians

[Jorje]

Rainywinter, you have a lot of patience.

[Aoun4lebanon]

Originally Posted by Rainywinter

I'm really torn here.
On the one hand, it seems that your only wish in here is to vent your anger, degrade me aggressively and try to lure me into a flame war with pro-nazi & hateful comments and ill used misinformation. It also seems that you have no intention of giving me the basic respect any human being deserves,

I'm playing the violent... I heard that tune a million times. what a poor Israelie, always the victim, haram I'm aggressively degrading you. Go cry to the germans, they will give you some $$$ and silence your winning.

I'd really not like to be derailed into a flame war. I don't believe this is the way to go, and this is not the way to discuss serious matters like that.

Good then go protest in front of your terrorist government to stop its aggression.

However, on the other hand, although I surely won't fight flame with flame in here, I have this growing urge to correct you and try to overlook all the negativity you'd chosen to express your opinion with.
It's really a tough choice.

Is it? what about an eye for an eye or maybe your not jew and you dont believe in vengence and revenge.

I don't think you know my opinion. It feels like you're generalizing. It surely doesn't seem you try to listen or comprehend my point of view or opinion.

Your opinion is exactly like Maire Kahana (hear him)

You should use common sense here and realize several things. One, while I would, and the majority of people in Israel, happily totally evacuate Shebaa farms, it is not as simple as it may look. It is a process, and there are many factors involved including and not limited to all sorts of agreements and involvement of various sources.

Your right I should use common sense, whats taken by force should be returned by force. So yes by hook or by crook this land is ours and by the help of the resistance and HA it will return.

See, if you had bothered to listen to my opinion, you had seen I've no interest in the Shebaa farms nor am I against returning it. Why does it not happen? As I said, its a complex situation and it takes time.
And no, I'm not going to change my mind and say I don't think we should give it back, just because you're being aggressive and hateful.

You want to know what I think, I honestly think you are a naive amature. Your government occupied the south of lebanon for its water and its occupying shib3a farm for the same reason and the golan heights.

But you should also realize that he is extremely irrelevant because he represents a smaller group of fanatics that have nearly no effect whatsoever.
All those things you mentioned previously are severely condemned in here and have nothing to do with the reality we live in.
Might it be from extensive propaganda and blind hate? Maybe.

One question to you, are you Jew? do you believe in Yahwa? Do you know who the Canaan people are? so explain this text to me and try to relate to Gaza, Qana, Janien, Dier Yassen etc etc etc

For the people of Canaan: complete extermination
20:15Thus shall you do to all the cities which are very far off from you, which are not of the cities of these nations. 20:16But of the cities of these peoples, that Yahweh your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes; 20:17but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Yahweh your God has commanded you...

Thats not true. There were Jews, even if in much smaller numbers, on this land prior to 1948 and prior the holocaust.

Thank you for admitting the jews were in much smaller numbers, which means the majority of the people were palestinians. You reminded me of an Israelie I met in Swizerland who was trying to convince a european that Palestine was an empty desert land with no inhabitants.

And as said before, how far back are you going to look at?
There wasn't a Palestinian Country in here, you do know that, right?

We can go as far back as you want, this land had the majority of Canaan, assyrians, amorites, phonecian people more than the jews.

It feels and seems like I am your enemy because you choose me to be one. As I tried to explain earlier, every side has casualties, broken dreams and shattered families. It is really hard for me to accept that you actually think Israel as benefiting or enjoying the conflict we're facing by any means.
Wake up. Try to shake off the prejudice and see through the negative propaganda and blind hatred some people are spreading.

I sometimes wonder why theodor hertzel chose Palestine and not argentine knowing that the prime objective is to settle the jews in a land full of water. What a mistake by the prior, I feel sorry for the Jews, were ever they go they are persecuted, harrassed, bullied and it makes one wonder, why?

Why is it every nation the jews set their foot at they are being treated like that, is it the native people or the nature of the jews and their religion. One wonders after the holocaust maybe the jews would have learned a lesson but NO look at how they threat the native inhabitant of the land. (Palestine)
rainywinter YOU have a problem, go fix it on your account not on my account nor on the palestinian account.

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by 3asheq Beirut

Look, we're not children here, and we weren't born yesterday. There is one side that occupied land and one side that is defending this land, period. I'm not talking of good or bad, or guilty or innocent, as these are all relative terms. I am talking of our right to defend our rights and our land from foreign aggressors. There is no way to equate the occupation of a land by people from a completely different region and the expulsion of the indigenous inhabitants of this land with those inhabitants' resistance to the occupation.

I had never said our country hadn't done mistakes in the past, but all actions were made out of a wheel of consequences, whether unfortunate or not, as how the world works.
We're a small, young country and we were at war several times with all of our Islamic\Arabic oriented neighbors, and thats all after the holocaust. We have our fair share of tragic history of events.
I'm not using this as an excuse or to justify any occupation of foreign lands - there are other logical explanations to these. All I'm saying is that we're not the monster some might want to present us as such.
I think it's time that we stop using aggression, violence and killing to promote our goals, whether it's "resistance" or "defense" and realize that a peace treaty is a process that might take time to achieve, and that the way of terror and war shall not yield any future for our children.

The world has advanced. It has changed massively in the recent decades. We currently are facing situations we couldn't face before. We have new tools and realism to deal with things in a different, more open minded way, than we could had done before. It's time we work this to our advance, not to our disadvantage.

Yes we always get "first hand" accounts from all Israelis, as all of them were obviously serving in the Israeli military. Those accounts, unfortunately, are always at odds with the reality on the ground. Civilians being killed, raped, and maimed, their homes destroyed, and their fields and orchards uprooted. These are consistent and continous acts on the part of the Israelis, and your supposed reprimand and prosecution of soldiers partaking in such acts is pure nonsense. Investigations always lead to the conclusion that Israeli soldiers did nothing wrong, and in the event that the evidence is clear and indisputable they are given no more than a symbolic slap on the wrist.

Well then, I'm to ask you to check your sources, once again. I've seen not once an Israeli soldier whos been sent to jail for merely inappropriate behaviour. For example, did you hear about the soldiers who exposed their behinds to palestinian civilians? Do you know they got sent to jail for that?
What you're saying here has no basis and it's not true. Our army has strong moral codes, and when someone would break them, he pays.
If you choose not to believe it, I understand.

I endorse resistance because I believe in a people's right to defend their land and their inalienable rights against a brutal aggressor that has shown nothing but killing and occupation. Sure, it's always easy to surrender and submit to the powerful, but those who are unwilling to undergo such humiliation will continue to fight and I cannot but support that. Otherwise, we should have condemned the French resistance for daring to resist German occupation. It sure would have saved more lives. Same with the Algerian resistance to French colonialism. Many Algerians would have been spared. But at what price? Wasn't it the American hero Patrick Henry who said "Is life so dear or peace so sweet to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbit it almighty God, I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."

I still think there's a lot of bias in your arguments, but thats understandable.
I never said I expected a country to give up their lands right away or not fight for them, and I acknowledge the right to defend your country. Unfortunately, thats one thing, and the Shebaa farms is another thing. In a war, as in war, territories might be conquered as a strategic move, as what happened with the Shebaa farms. You do realize that it was conquered while Syria was in charge of that territory, right? You do know that it is yet to be determined and compromised between Lebanon and Syria whether these territories belong to either one, and whether, in time, Israel should give it to this, or the other, right?
And since its a territory that have a crucial position, you don't expect Israel to give it back without some agreement that it won't be used later against it, right?

Look all this poetic drivel is meaningless to me. YOU came to a land inhabited by others. YOU occupied it. YOU expelled the natural inhabitants of this land. And YOU continued to force them to live in humiliation ever since. So please sell your speeches and lectures to someone else.

Fact is, we're willing and will give these Shebaa farms back, once all the factors that were decided diplomatically will be fulfilled. If you wish to use aggression, violence and force, thats another thing. If you have prejudice or blind hate towards us and don't think you can co-exist with us, thats another thing as well.
In regard to the conflict with the Palestinians - it's extremely complex. Although I would agree that Israel has the upper hand right now, you shouldn't underestimate the damage it is also causes to Israel in many ways. The reality we're facing is something neither of us benefit from in any way. We do want the Palestinians to have their independent country, but as I said, its not as easy to solve with all the factors involved.

I wish you would stop patronizing us at least. I know you know what you are doing and what kind of behavior you are practicing, so don't come here with these questions that aim merely to disguise Israel's nature and waste are time and energy. Israel from its very foundation has caused nothing but misery to our people because it cannot bring itself to respect others or treat them as human beings. What happened and is happening in Palestine is a horrendous crime against an entire people that can only be rectified with complete justice for the Palestinians.

Sorry if I come off as patronizing, it's really not my initial intent.
I do present things about Israel totally how they are in here. There is no disguise, and I also think to achieve a true understanding there would be no point in trying to deceive you.
And what is it that I'm trying to do, can you enlighten me? I'm not sure I follow.
I'm here to learn, be enlightened and share my experience. I'm here because I'm curious and I wish to have a view of how things look from 1st source and not through the media. As I said, I'm not behind any organization and I'm not an activist.
I believe, that just as much we have many cultures and religions amongst us, some of which are Arabs and Muslims, and that we can coexist and respect each other, we can also achieve that with our neighbors, as done before, given the right leadership and with reasoning.
I believe all humans are equal. I'd like to think I don't have blind hatred and I won't come with prejudice to a person I don't know just because of their ethnicity, religion, nationality, appearance or country.
I'd expect the same from you, but I'd understand if it's not the same way.

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by Aoun4lebanon

I'm playing the violent... I heard that tune a million times. what a poor Israelie, always the victim, haram I'm aggressively degrading you. Go cry to the germans, they will give you some $$$ and silence your winning.

You heard that tune a million times because thats how you come off. I refused to derail to that level.
If it was a game forum, I might as well "accept" your invitation, but that would only be because I don't take that game seriously enough, and because it's a game.
I don't see much sense in replying to your degrading comments. Its called feeding the troll, and I have no interest in that, so I will just ignore those comments who are meant to tick me off. If you wish to keep going with them, and whether its acceptable in this place, thats fine, its your choice.

Is it? what about an eye for an eye or maybe your not jew and you dont believe in vengence and revenge.

This is, imo, where you fail. Besides that I don't believe in vengeance and revenge, I'm trying to explain to you that firstly:
the vast majority of Israel population are secular, and even the minority of religious people, except the fanatics, I suppose, which as I said, exist in every country & religion, live by the rules of Israel, which is a democratic country. Vengeance and Revenge can not be used as an excuse to commit a crime, even if there is a minority that would support such.
Secondly, an eye for an eye is something you had taken from the Bible. We do not live in the middle ages, as it's the 21th century. The rules of conduct we have in Israel are far from what's written in the Bible and is not related.
Heck, we don't even have death penalty, and in fact the only death penalty that was ever practiced was to Adolf Eichmann, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

Your right I should use common sense, whats taken by force should be returned by force. So yes by hook or by crook this land is ours and by the help of the resistance and HA it will return.

So, you endorse Eye for an Eye, Vengeance & Revenge, and yet you accuse me of this?

You want to know what I think, I honestly think you are a naive amature. Your government occupied the south of lebanon for its water and its occupying shib3a farm for the same reason and the golan heights.

There are quite a few strategic reasons these lands were conquered.
Am I a naive amateur? Perhaps. I never declared to be a pro.

One question to you, are you Jew? do you believe in Yahwa? Do you know who the Canaan people are? so explain this text to me and try to relate to Gaza, Qana, Janien, Dier Yassen etc etc etc

For the people of Canaan: complete extermination
20:15Thus shall you do to all the cities which are very far off from you, which are not of the cities of these nations. 20:16But of the cities of these peoples, that Yahweh your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes; 20:17but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Yahweh your God has commanded you...

Although I think it holds little relevance, I am Jewish.
Again, that quote has no relevance for the future and present or the close past. I'd like to remind you that our Israel's actions are not based on whats written in the Bible. I really wish I could make you understand and accept that. Just because something like that is written in a holy book thousands of years ago, or just because this thing or another was said by this Rabbi or another, it doesn't mean it's going to hold for the rest of our lives. Our country is far from being driven by a fanatical belief. As I said, and I'd like to reiterate, the religious community is a minority in Israel.


Thank you for admitting the jews were in much smaller numbers, which means the majority of the people were palestinians. You reminded me of an Israelie I met in Swizerland who was trying to convince a European that Palestine was an empty desert land with no inhabitants.
I'm not that Israeli, and there is nothing to admit. It's a fact.

We can go as far back as you want, this land had the majority of Canaan, assyrians, amorites, phonecian people more than the jews.
Well, as I said, this is a whole other discussion to be discussed, it's a huge topic and our plates are full.

I sometimes wonder why theodor hertzel chose Palestine and not argentine knowing that the prime objective is to settle the jews in a land full of water. What a mistake by the prior, I feel sorry for the Jews, were ever they go they are persecuted, harrassed, bullied and it makes one wonder, why?
Why is it every nation the jews set their foot at they are being treated like that, is it the native people or the nature of the jews and their religion. One wonders after the holocaust maybe the jews would have learned a lesson but NO look at how they threat the native inhabitant of the land. (Palestine)
rainywinter YOU have a problem, go fix it on your account not on my account nor on the palestinian account.

Thats what happens to countriless minorities. What makes you think it had only happened to the Jews?
The Jews have since always been a minority, and much like other minorities, we had our butts kicked on several occasions in the past. Thats why Israeli country is so important for us minority, like it or not.
If we could copy paste our entire country to another land and to avoid all the conflicts, who knows. Maybe we had done that. Unfortunately it's not like that.

[Rainywinter]

I'm going to post an open question(s), and although mostly relevant to people like Aoun4lebanon, Dalzi and 3asheq, I'd be glad to hear from other people about this.

After what I've written (and in general), can you understand and accept that the vast majority of Israelis are not religious and are not motivated by religion*? That the majority are not as connected with the term Zionist as much (in contrary to some years ago) and are just trying to live their lives? That Israel is not a primitive, religious country, and ancient holy writings from whatever Bible have no effect on how it is being conducted? (which is why I think that either Religious fights are futile, or they hold no relevance. Knowing several radical paragraphs from the Bible does not mean you know anything about Israel or today's Jews)

*- not that there is anything wrong with being a religious jew, much like there isn't anything wrong with being a religious person, whether it's Christian or Muslim. Just to prove the point that even if you have some kind of prejudice about religious Jewish people, it certainly holds little relevance to reality.

Sadly, I think that question would be a long shot, as even if you changed your opinion slightly there is a minuscule chance you'd confirm it, probably for various reasons, whether its pride, denial or simply not wanting to show that Israeli you're talking with he might have some point sometimes.

The reason I'm asking these questions, is because discussing those things with some of you only empowers my feeling that a huge part of the problem we're facing is how each side perceives the other, or equivalently how much "demonizing" is done to the other side, which is created most likely to allow hatred become a lot more understandable, while actually those things are pretty far from reality.
I can't say I was shocked to see how much you know of us, and how much you know of how we conduct has so little to do with whats really going on in here.
I'm not blaming you for it, as usually it's how Israelis are portrayed to you from sources where you gain your knowledge from, and if to blame anyone, both sides are to blame, as obviously this phenomenon does not exist only in your place, but some people here, too, think of the same untrue stuff about you, even if it is much more "mild" than how presented by "you". (at least from my observation, and its most probably because we get to live with a highly chromatic society with all kinds of ethnicity and religions).

I do think it does take some clarity and an open mind to look beyond that.

[Abu Ruman]

At least he doesnt have constitutional support - and thats the most important thing, as far as I'm concerned.

I think this Rabbi (minus the foreign policy) would get along really well with the mollahs (i.e. the mollahs hate the infidels, this Rabbi hates the infidels, etc. that sort of mutual understanding )

It makes you wonder, why these cretins continuously fight eachother so much when, in retrospect, they really have alot more in common