Terrorist Israeli Rabbi: stop acting like christians

[chafic]

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

how they understand God is one thing and how he/she/it is portrayed in the Sacred Books is another.

For example, by comparing the New testament (the Gospels) with the Old Testament taken from the Torah, u find that God in the New Testament is forgiving, good, loving, caring, etc... whilst in the Old Testament he is a vindictive, sadistic, bloodthursty megalomaniac.

Hence, I wonder why the church even accepts such dichotomy and considers the New Testament as a continuation of the Old Testament!

But the old testament is by itself contradictory. The "Do not kill" comes on the top of the list of commandments, then God orders killings here and there.

Now regarding the part in bold, I agree with you, that's what I've been saying in previous posts.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by 3asheq Beirut

Chafic,

I'm sorry but the Torah is the only religious book that repeatedly and consistently justifies violence and immorality as long as it is directed at another people. The central tenet of the Torah is that the Jews are the chosen people of God, and that all other peoples are subhumans that ought to be eliminated so that God's promise of a land to the Jews can be fulfilled. No other religion has that as its basic, fundamental belief. Read the Torah. Open any page, and you are bound to see something disturbing in it, because the whole books is filled with murder, rape, theft, adultery, vengeance, incest, etc.

Now, maybe not all Jews believe in the Torah, but those that do have to reconcile between what is written there and what they claim to believe in.

We can't name it the Torah as horrific as it seems after the alterations, they follow the Talmud.

Originally Posted by chafic

3asheq Beirut,

the three Abrahamic religions depict God in pretty much similar ways. Violence and immorality are present in different verses of the Old testament of the Christian bible and in the Quran.

Nope, wrong. You must be reading some out of context English verses off the net.

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by chafic

But the old testament is by itself contradictory. The "Do not kill" comes on the top of the list of commandments, then God orders killings here and there.

Now regarding the part in bold, I agree with you, that's what I've been saying in previous posts.

Wrong, Chafic. The "do not kill" has to be taken in context. It is meant ONLY for Jews. Do not kill Jews, but go ahead and kill everyone else. The Torah is by its nature extremely racist.

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by chafic

3asheq Beirut,

the three Abrahamic religions depict God in pretty much similar ways. Violence and immorality are present in different verses of the Old testament of the Christian bible and in the Quran.

The Old Testament IS the Torah, and yes it is very violent because it is based on Jewish teachings. The New testament is a lot different. Christ did not preach the killing, pillaging, raping, etc. of other peoples. Nor did he differentiate between one group and another. That's why Christianity is truly a universal religion, while Judaism is a private religion for a specific people only. As for the Qur'an, while there are episodes of violence in it, depicting battles and struggles to spread the teachings of Islam, it does not continuously and consistently promote violence and immorality and it is not based on a racist belief that an ethnic group called "Muslims" is superior to all other groups and ought to kill them all in order to create a land only for Muslims. Islam is a universal religion, just like Christianity, that aims to convince all peoples of the truth and genuineness of its message.

[chafic]

Originally Posted by 3asheq Beirut

Wrong, Chafic. The "do not kill" has to be taken in context. It is meant ONLY for Jews. Do not kill Jews, but go ahead and kill everyone else. The Torah is by its nature extremely racist.

That's the point. In the context or out of it is pretty much a subjective judgment. Both you and a Jew fanatic would want to adopt the explanation that the "Do not kill" is only meant for Jews. A moderate Jew would argue the opposite.

The Old Testament IS the Torah, and yes it is very violent because it is based on Jewish teachings. The New testament is a lot different. Christ did not preach the killing, pillaging, raping, etc. of other peoples. Nor did he differentiate between one group and another. That's why Christianity is truly a universal religion, while Judaism is a private religion for a specific people only. As for the Qur'an, while there are episodes of violence in it, depicting battles and struggles to spread the teachings of Islam, it does not continuously and consistently promote violence and immorality and it is not based on a racist belief that an ethnic group called "Muslims" is superior to all other groups and ought to kill them all in order to create a land only for Muslims. Islam is a universal religion, just like Christianity, that aims to convince all peoples of the truth and genuineness of its message.

Actually the old testament is an integral part of the bible, and thus Christianity, and it's not by chance that Jesus is reported to have said :"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
As for which scripture contain the more violent verses, I'm not really a bible or Quran or Torah thumper, so I don't keep the count, but I know they all have a fair amount of it.

[WiseCookie]

Let's take what Bin Laden said and consider that every muslim believes in it.

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by chafic

That's the point. In the context or out of it is pretty much a subjective judgment. Both you and a Jew fanatic would want to adopt the explanation that the "Do not kill" is only meant for Jews. A moderate Jew would argue the opposite.


Actually the old testament is an integral part of the bible, and thus Christianity, and it's not by chance that Jesus is reported to have said :"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
As for which scripture contain the more violent verses, I'm not really a bible or Quran or Torah thumper, so I don't keep the count, but I know they all have a fair amount of it.

That last part in the quote was added. It did not exist in the original Gospel. And the whole quote is contradictory as Jesus said he wasn't there to abolish the law and the prophets, but them goes on to exactly contradict them and reject them. I believe this quote was added later as it doesn't fit in the context. In any case, the exact quotes have never been agreed upon, what we can do however, is take the teachings of Jesus as a whole and compare them to those of the Torah, and they are the exact opposite. The Torah teaches that there is a special people, called Jews, who have been chosen by God to take over the land promised to them and to control the world, and in the process they ought to eliminate all inhabitants of the lands around them. On the other hand, the Gospel teaches equality amongst all people and to treat others as we would have them treat us. So the basic teachings are quite contradictory.

[Rainywinter]

You know what, 3asheq Beirut and Dalzi, as long as you realize and accept the following several facts, I don't really mind how either of you choose to interpret or think of the Torah.

1) The vast majority of Jews in Israel are secular.
2) Israel is not a religious country, by all means. We do not exclusively follow religious codes found in the Torah, just because they appear there.
3) The Torah, as other Sacred Writings (such as the Koran), were written thousands of years ago, and hold little to none relevance on how Israel is conducted.
4) Following 3 - the Torah, as a whole, does not necessarily represent how any religious Jewish person would conduct ihisself these days. Don't forget that religious Jews are living in countries with laws and abide to them fully.

I think, that it's only appropriate that other countries would adapt such behaviour as well, seeing as the world moves forwards and not backwards, and we should learn to adapt ourselves to how mankind evolves and grows. Mankind has many things in the present we did not take into consideration hundreds and thousands years ago and many moral standards have changed.

By the way. I've never heard in my entire life any Rabbi or religious Jewish person saying that "Thou Shalt Not Kill" only means its not allowed to kill Jews. The only interpretation I've ever heard and that is being taught in schools and religious schools I've encountered is "Do Not Kill. Anyone. Period."

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by chafic

That's the point. In the context or out of it is pretty much a subjective judgment. Both you and a Jew fanatic would want to adopt the explanation that the "Do not kill" is only meant for Jews. A moderate Jew would argue the opposite.

Read the Torah in its entirety. It is clear that the commandments are directed only to Jews. No need to interpret it. Now if there are Jews that want to change these teachings and in fact give a more universal approach to their religion, that would be great. But this does not change the nature of the Torah.

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by 3asheq Beirut

Read the Torah in its entirety. It is clear that the commandments are directed only to Jews. No need to interpret it. Now if there are Jews that want to change these teachings and in fact give a more universal approach to their religion, that would be great. But this does not change the nature of the Torah.

I suppose the only thing I can do is advise you to change your sources.
Its really sad to see some people are believing this, but as I said, I'm a first hand testimony that this is not true. The way that this sentence in the Torah is being taught widely is "Do Not Kill" period. I've never heard it is being taught differently.
I really think arguing over religions is futile, as it's subject to so many interpretations.
I'd still like to emphasis that one way or another, whatever is written in the Torah, in whatever way you wish to interpret it, holds little to no relevance about the way Israel is conducting itself.