The Story of Palestine from A to X

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Salome

What would be a happy ending? Is that happy for both sides? I really wonder how one solves such a conflict which doesn't seem to have an end....someone said somewhere that it will be solved since the arabs have much more babies than the jews...I think it's wrong on both sides there are families with 10 kids...it won't solve anything just bring more misery since Israel is ready to do a 2nd Ghaza anytime and kill 1000s of people....

What hope there is left? Look at the violance and hatred engraved to the mind of jews and arabs as well...how do you erase that....with more violance, with more wars and bloodshed?...maybe our hope is in an armageddon in the ME??

"إسرائيل هذه ستزول من الوجود حتما"

There you go, that's your answer.

[LiNk]

Originally Posted by Salome

What would be a happy ending? Is that happy for both sides? I really wonder how one solves such a conflict which doesn't seem to have an end....someone said somewhere that it will be solved since the arabs have much more babies than the jews...I think it's wrong on both sides there are families with 10 kids...it won't solve anything just bring more misery since Israel is ready to do a 2nd Ghaza anytime and kill 1000s of people....

What hope there is left? Look at the violance and hatred engraved to the mind of jews and arabs as well...how do you erase that....with more violance, with more wars and bloodshed?...maybe our hope is in an armageddon in the ME??

On an individual personal scale, this conflict might seem unresolvable. Finding a solution within the next couple of years seems a bit unlikely to happen and without a doubt, erasing some random country from existence would automatically sound out of the question.

At a bigger scale, let's say on an interval of 50 to 200 years, the outcome of the conflict appears quite obvious. The current dominating strength in the region will eventually fade away, leaving its throne for another or maybe several others that would be more than delighted to take over. Correlated with a consequent - and presumable - demographic disequilibrium that would succeed in tipping the scales in favor of a turnaround, the balance of power will shift from one side to another, and there's absolutely no doubt that a profound permutation would ultimately occur.

Until then, fasten your seatbelts cause we're in for a continuous bloodshed that would eventually grow exponentially as time is not Israel's best friend.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

"إسرائيل هذه ستزول من الوجود حتما"

There you go, that's your answer.

Dalzi was that your answer to all what I wrote above?? Sounds like an empty chant, and definitely not a constructive answer seeking solutions

Originally Posted by LiNk

On an individual personal scale, this conflict might seem unresolvable. Finding a solution within the next couple of years seems a bit unlikely to happen and without a doubt, erasing some random country from existence would automatically sound out of the question.

At a bigger scale, let's say on an interval of 50 to 200 years, the outcome of the conflict appears quite obvious. The current dominating strength in the region will eventually fade away, leaving its throne for another or maybe several others that would be more than delighted to take over. Correlated with a consequent - and presumable - demographic disequilibrium that would succeed in tipping the scales in favor of a turnaround, the balance of power will shift from one side to another, and there's absolutely no doubt that a profound permutation would ultimately occur.

Until then, fasten your seatbelts cause we're in for a continuous bloodshed that would eventually grow exponentially as time is not Israel's best friend.

Ok so we can not promise anything to our children and their children but more bloodshed to come, more violance more hatred, we just signed for our children's death...oh yeah I know already some are not afraid to sacrifice their children even, they have done already and will do it again

Well I personally am disgusted already from so much ignorant violance and the circle of hatred that I am betting for a quick armageddon to erase all future sufferings in the region, clean cut.

[LiNk]

Originally Posted by Salome

Ok so we can not promise anything to our children and their children but more bloodshed to come, more violance more hatred, we just signed for our children's death...oh yeah I know already some are not afraid to sacrifice their children even, they have done already and will do it again

You can promise them a visa. You can promise them a normal life in a normal country where they can acquire knowledge, culture, and a decent living.

The biggest achievement my father did was giving us the French passport. I can never be enough thankful for that.

Well I personally am disgusted already from so much ignorant violance and the circle of hatred that I am betting for a quick armageddon to erase all future sufferings in the region, clean cut.

Don't despair, because it's not worth it. Humans keep on searching all their miserable lives for something to fight for. And you've been given that cause by default. You can chose to run away and hide, wear some explosives and go blow yourself up, or simply acquire the needed knowledge and build yourself as a successful person in order to be up to it and show the world that you do not deserve the injustice you're living. The more of us there is out there, the more leverage we could gain in favor of our cause.

And by our cause I mean the Lebanese one, all I can do for Palestinians is a bit of sympathy. Because more, well, I cannot.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by LiNk

You can promise them a visa. You can promise them a normal life in a normal country where they can acquire knowledge, culture, and a decent living.

The biggest achievement my father did was giving us the French passport. I can never be enough thankful for that.

Those who manage to settle in the western world, do you think they would ever return? Yes they will have a decent life abroad, but that won't solve the conflict. And many won't be able to leave...

I heard they don't need our sympathy, they had enough of that...and in the end they were betrayed and sold by their own "brothers"

[LiNk]

Originally Posted by Salome

Those who manage to settle in the western world, do you think they would ever return? Yes they will have a decent life abroad, but that won't solve the conflict. And many won't be able to leave...

Returning is not a goal by itself. Considering the narrow size of Lebanon and its limited resources, people leaving it while pertaining a strong LiNk () with their mother nation might come out as more valuable.

The established connection would then be of economic, cultural, and social nature.

Note that in a general observation, Lebanese who immigrate to Europe seem to have lesser difficulties when it comes to keeping that bond.

[amalhope]

Originally Posted by Salome

What would be a happy ending? Is that happy for both sides?

Hi Salome!

I think, for the reasons outlined in the video, we cannot equate between both sides. If you haven't watched the video, please do:
YouTube - The Story of Palestine from A to X

One side (generally speaking) is the aggressor in this conflict, the other (generally speaking) is the victim or the respondent.

A happy ending is any solution that permits Palestinian refugees to go back to their original homes/villages/cities. A two-state solution cannot work because it's unjust to Palestinians. You can't ask a Palestinian family from Haifa or Yaffa to go back to Gaza or the West Bank!! That's just not fair. Perhaps a one-state solution with lots of education and tolerance-building on both sides could work.

The right to return might not be practiced by all Palestinians who have started lives in other countries, but they need to have that right. Whether they decide to exercise it or not is up to them.

Originally Posted by Salome

maybe our hope is in an armageddon in the ME??

Originally Posted by Dalzi

"إسرائيل هذه ستزول من الوجود حتما"

I don't believe in armageddons or prophecies and the reason I made this video is to contest religious talk on both sides. I was hoping to divert discussion from the usual religious jargon. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been made into a religious conflict when it shouldn't be or have ever been so.

Originally Posted by Salome

Well I personally am disgusted already from so much ignorant violance and the circle of hatred

True. There is a lot of ignorant violence. However, sometimes violence cannot be avoided. Israel practiced systematic violence against Palestinians. Palestinians had no other choice:
YouTube - Israeli Brutality - The Occupation, Human Rights Violations and War Crimes

We also need to remember that we live in a hierarchical world. Even resistance or any form of violent response is done by the poorer of society on the most part. It's mostly carried out by those who have nothing to lose for putting their lives at risk. Some die believing in their cause, others die because they've been brainwashed that heaven awaits them with its virgins.

Note that here I am talking about legitimate resistance, not Bin Laden type of "terrorism". I understand that this can sometimes be too subjective and that the line between "resistance" and "terrorism" is a fine one, and sometimes legitimate resistance includes "terrorism" or intilling fear in your enemy's psyche!

[Salome]

Originally Posted by amalhope

Hi Salome!

I think, for the reasons outlined in the video, we cannot equate between both sides. If you haven't watched the video, please do:
YouTube - The Story of Palestine from A to X

I saw the video, it's a very good one:)

Well surely the sides in strength are not equal, but you think the world would accept a solution which makes only the arabs happy?

On the other hand will we really accept that all human lives are equally valuable, regardless of religion and nationality. Meaning a jew's life is equally valuable as an arab's life and vice versa?

I know in reality very few can accept this moral ground on both sides, because majority can not look beyond their hatred and wounds...so there you go, doomed from the beginning.

One side (generally speaking) is the aggressor in this conflict, the other (generally speaking) is the victim or the respondent.

A happy ending is any solution that permits Palestinian refugees to go back to their original homes/villages/cities. A two-state solution cannot work because it's unjust to Palestinians. You can't ask a Palestinian family from Haifa or Yaffa to go back to Gaza or the West Bank!! That's just not fair. Perhaps a one-state solution with lots of education and tolerance-building on both sides could work.

So this means no happy ending for Israel...which also means no solution for the next 100 years, great we will have generations of Palestinians who never saw peace and normal life therefore you imprinted hatred deep already in their DNA. Isn't that already a recipe for an armageddon?

The right to return might not be practiced by all Palestinians who have started lives in other countries, but they need to have that right. Whether they decide to exercise it or not is up to them.

Am sorry but the right of return, however just it is, is not realistic. At least in the next decades to come.

I don't believe in armageddons or prophecies and the reason I made this video is to contest religious talk on both sides. I was hoping to divert discussion from the usual religious jargon. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been made into a religious conflict when it shouldn't be or have ever been so.

By armageddon I meant a clean cut solution like nukes dropped on the whole region:D I know it is not a soltuion but the situation is so desperate

True. There is a lot of ignorant violence. However, sometimes violence cannot be avoided. Israel practiced systematic violence against Palestinians. Palestinians had no other choice:
YouTube - Israeli Brutality - The Occupation, Human Rights Violations and War Crimes

I think they are doing it on purpose to keep the violence alive...it is essential for Israel's survival.

We also need to remember that we live in a hierarchical world. Even resistance or any form of violent response is done by the poorer of society on the most part. It's mostly carried out by those who have nothing to lose for putting their lives at risk. Some die believing in their cause, others die because they've been brainwashed that heaven awaits them with its virgins.

Note that here I am talking about legitimate resistance, not Bin Laden type of "terrorism". I understand that this can sometimes be too subjective and that the line between "resistance" and "terrorism" is a fine one, and sometimes legitimate resistance includes "terrorism" or intilling fear in your enemy's psyche!

Tell me about that thin line...I was giving once a speech on Hamas and Hezbollah, and some academic/governmental @ssholes found my speech too biased and felt kinda offended how I dare to show them facts about the Israeli aggression and how I dare call HA and Hamas resistence....no chance in the western mainstream media they are considered terrorists

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by shreek

A to X, not Z, because the Arabo-Islamists are still living in the dream of hope that one day they can defeat Israel and re-claim 'Palestine' for Islam.

Palestinians want Palestine back because it is their land. Not for Islam.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Salome

What would be a happy ending? Is that happy for both sides? I really wonder how one solves such a conflict which doesn't seem to have an end....someone said somewhere that it will be solved since the arabs have much more babies than the jews...I think it's wrong on both sides there are families with 10 kids...it won't solve anything just bring more misery since Israel is ready to do a 2nd Ghaza anytime and kill 1000s of people....

What hope there is left? Look at the violance and hatred engraved to the mind of jews and arabs as well...how do you erase that....with more violance, with more wars and bloodshed?...maybe our hope is in an armageddon in the ME??

Israel must be dissolved under international pressure. It is an apartheid state and must fall like South Africa did under pressure of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions.

We are already seeing the effect of the BDS campaign. Israeli diplomats are fearful to enter the UK for fear of arrest due to war crimes. We also have the Goldstone Report, and companies severing their links to the Israeli Occupation for fear of boycott.

Palestinians, both abroad, and at home need to understand that Israel fears sanctions more than it does even Iran's nuclear program. If the pressure stays up, its days are numbered.

Israeli minister cancels UK trip in fear of arrest | World news | The Guardian