Pro-Israeli Lobby - Articles and Discussion

[Lebanese_N_Proud]

Interesting read for those who have time.

http://www.imemc.org/content/view/17432/146/

Enjoy,

[hassanleb]

I personally disagree with this study. I will say that even if there were no zionists lobbying in america for israel, americans would still support israel over arabs. american support for israel is based on cultural , historical and politcal values. American zionists help highlight those values but that does not mean they're forcing the amrican people to act against their interests. In the eyes of americans, israel is a western democracy and that alone makes them a natural ally; add to that the fact the zionists are culturally far closer to the west than the arabs

[Free_Patriot]

Very interesting article, it gives a lot of well-documented information.
There are two general theories believed by Middle-Eastern academics and politicians. One says that the US is controlled by the Jewish lobby and is directly driven by their wishes and blind support to Israel. Another says that the US support to Israel is based on pure American interest and has nothing to do with Jewish lobby. The second theory often accuses the first one of giving the excuse to the Americans in their biased policies.
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It’s a difficult issue that is not easy to draw conclusions about it without historical readings and credible proofs. Living in North America, I personally witness the Jewish control everyday. Jews control not only the political establishment but also major parts of the media, universities, and economic activities. The Jewish control in North America and particularly in the United States is similar to what was happening in Germany before the rise of Nazism in the 1930s.

[Motorcity]

Originally Posted by hassanleb

I personally disagree with this study. I will say that even if there were no zionists lobbying in america for israel, americans would still support israel over arabs. american support for israel is based on cultural , historical and politcal values. American zionists help highlight those values but that does not mean they're forcing the amrican people to act against their interests. In the eyes of americans, israel is a western democracy and that alone makes them a natural ally; add to that the fact the zionists are culturally far closer to the west than the arabs

Take it from an American:
Americans only looks after their self interest!
We don't give a **** about the historical & cultural "values" of anyone. Be it the Israelites, the Bashtons or even the Irish.
Infact, most American's know little or nothing any farther than the Atlantic!
(don't get me wrong in here, we do respect these values, but not to be mixed with Interests)!!!

Having a strategic ally such as Israel, became a cornerstone in American foreign policy during the second half of the 20th century, starting with the Truman Adminstration at the hight of the Soviet threat(7elf Baghdad..etc)

The Current American foreign policy in the MiddleEast remains unchanged because of strong Jewish lobying groups, supported by a wide media establishment!!!
Any seroius critcism or questioning of Israel by any American politcian is a career suicide!!

There are other growing elements in this support, mainly on the Religion side, by Southern Evangelican groups, who look at israel from a Byblical point of view. Their effect is strong but still young!!!

[Lebanese_N_Proud]

Free_Patriot,

To me it was never a matter of IF they are an influence or not. Its obvious that the Jewish lobby was always influential in US policy, and this dates back to the 50s. The real question was to what EXTENT they were influential. Many argue that although Jewish Lobby groups have a say in US foreign policy, it is limited and does not hinder US interests. This study approaches the situation from an entirely different angle. It doesnt only illustrate how influential the lobbyists are but also how detrimental it is to US interests.

I think it is well supported. Hopefully its a wake up call for Lebanese in particular to increase their efforts via such means and not violence.

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by Motorcity

Any seroius critcism or questioning of Israel by any American politcian is a career suicide!!

There are other growing elements in this support, mainly on the Religion side, by Southern Evangelican groups, who look at israel from a Byblical point of view. Their effect is strong but still young!!!

Wise words. You're bang right on!!
All this so-called cultural similarities due to the biblical elements is new and artificial. Although it has nothing to do with the history of the American support to Israel, it might become a strong element in support for Israel of the American public opinion in the future. This idea will also fuel on the current resentment Americans have against the Arabs. At this point, the American support for Israel still has little to do with the American public. Average American citizens know nothing about Israel and, most importantly, know nothing about the amount of their tax money that their government sends to the Jewish state.

[hassanleb]

Originally Posted by Motorcity

Take it from an American:
Americans only looks after their self interest!
We don't give a **** about the historical & cultural "values" of anyone. Be it the Israelites, the Bashtons or even the Irish.
Infact, most American's know little or nothing any farther than Atlantic!
(don't get me wrong in here, we do respect these values, but not to be mixed with Interests)!!!

I agree with you that americans in general do not give a **** about other people but we are talking here about the american elite who does care a lot about what goes on around the world. American policy for the last century has been very consistent in terms of defining who are the strategic allies of the US. All strategic US allies share with the US the same political and cultural values. This is very obvious since the only US allies in this world are western european countries, israel and to a certain extent japan. All other alliances are temporary alliances to serve limited goals.

I am not saying here that american zionists don't play a role in promoting closer alliance between us and israel. Of course they do. My point is that this policy according to america's view of this world is not detrimental to us interests at all. US long term interests is not an oil deal with saudi arabia, according to americans, us lon term interests lies in the rise and the spread of american political and cultural values

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by Lebanese_N_Proud

Free_Patriot,

To me it was never a matter of IF they are an influence or not. Its obvious that the Jewish lobby was always influential in US policy, and this dates back to the 50s. The real question was to what EXTENT they were influential. Many argue that although Jewish Lobby groups have a say in US foreign policy, it is limited and does not hinder US interests. This study approaches the situation from an entirely different angle. It doesnt only illustrate how influential the lobbyists are but also how detrimental it is to US interests.

I think it is well supported. Hopefully its a wake up call for Lebanese in particular to increase their efforts via such means and not violence.

True. That is why there is a debate here about the issue. The article is very interesting and well supported but it’s still hard to say. The article talks about how the Jewish lobby is preventing peace in the middle east and encouraging hostilities against Iran and Syria under the conclusion that the current situation if Israel and Iraq is not good. I don’t personally think it’s true, in fact, the American invasion of Iraq went very well and those who wanted to make money out of it succeeded.
I don’t want to sound naïve but just simply logically speaking: if the economy is controlled by the Jews, and the government is filling the corporations pockets with lots of money through their policies in the middle east (such as the invasion of Iraq); therefore, the government is doing the best interest of the economy because it is also the best interest of the Jews. Here, the huge financial support for Israel becomes a by-product (or an investment?)

[DL]

Thank You, Lebanese N Proud for the link.

It is a great read and shows in concrete terms what everyone was speculating about for many years now.

My opinion is a straightforward one: Israel was created by pressure from Jewish lobbies worldwide. The power of these lobbies changed geography when powers were shifting from Europe to the US. What started as a major lobby in Germany and UK, turned to NY (the centre of the new empire) to become the major supporter of the right of Israel to exist (regardless of them knowing that it is a rogue cancer state built on false information and deep propaganda - for those who wish to expand on the issue, I advise the book by Kamal Salibi: the Bibble came from Arabia and this book demolishes the base of the foundation of Israel on Palestinian lands)...

Anyway, the influence of the lobby in the US is in the deep zionist ideology that clings to power and directs it from behind the scenes. The US since Truman has supported Israel regardless of whether the benefit of the US is elsewhere. Actually, the article states this fact clearly.

My friends - Israel is the biggest problem we will ever have to face in this region because it is a state built on the glorification of power and the neglect of what is right. It has an ideology that seperates / discrimnates / and flourishes on spreading fear and division. This is the same way that the lobby in the US acts in internal politics in the US. They have the money, the power, and control of media / banks / thought centers and they are ready to destroy - as a block - anyone who dares doing anything against their will.


Is there a way out of this satanic link between the two cancers following the same ideology (lobby in US and Israel)? I am a bit pessimistic that this could happen without an inner revolution against what these two entities represent. 1) That will require the US population to wake up and defend their tax money / way of life / benefits - but that will not happen if the US population continues to be inward looking and /or are deep followers of the new breed of religion: judeo inspired and orchestrated new-Christianism. 2) It wil require the people in the ME to wipe out the ideology uon which the state of Israel is built (and that does not mean wiping the population or dumping it into the sea) - but trying to push into a viable secular land where people of all faiths and origins could exist in historical Palestine.

Can you see any of this happening?

[Lebanese_N_Proud]

Originally Posted by Free_Patriot

True. That is why there is a debate here about the issue. The article is very interesting and well supported but it’s still hard to say. The article talks about how the Jewish lobby is preventing peace in the middle east and encouraging hostilities against Iran and Syria under the conclusion that the current situation if Israel and Iraq is not good. I don’t personally think it’s true, in fact, the American invasion of Iraq went very well and those who wanted to make money out of it succeeded.
I don’t want to sound naïve but just simply logically speaking: if the economy is controlled by the Jews, and the government is filling the corporations pockets with lots of money through their policies in the middle east (such as the invasion of Iraq); therefore, the government is doing the best interest of the economy because it is also the best interest of the Jews. Here, the huge financial support for Israel becomes a by-product (or an investment?)

First of all regarding the increased efforts on the part of the lobby for increased hostilities towards Syria and Iran, it shouldn't be taken in the literal sense. I think that was even mentioned in the article, when Israel says that the regime in Iran must be changed, it is more a message to keep it contained and weak and not actually removed by force. Its a diplomatic technique which is related to a certain psychological approach ( forgot the name ).

As for the second part of your post, I'm not sure I quite understand your question. However I can say this, to judge the American invasion as successful is too simplistic. The Iraqi situation which the US got itself into is atleast two-fold and not only economic. The US is currently the most indebted country in the world. While the corporations have attained their desired riches, and a new Iraq can be a gold mine for the economy of the US, it has ended up backfiring. The result is increased extremism, which results in more financial support for Israel and an easier job for Jewish lobbyists. So in that sense this financial aid becomes a by-product ( ie increased future investment ) which are both a result of the Iraq invasion. Hope that makes sense.