One more Jenin Massacre lie.

[Frisbeetarian]

Very touching. I do not know you personally, you may be who you say you are. Unfortunately for you, actions of your brethren speak much louder than your nice words.

If your so morally diluted, it doesnt mean that everyone is.
So your excomunicating Israel from any wrong doing? Is that it?

It applies to everybody.
However, if you are speaking as an Arab, then your land is not occupied and you have no claim.
If you are speaking as a Jew, then your land is occupied by Arabs and has to be freed.
If you are speaking as a Phoenician, then your land is occupied too, whether it is by Arabs or by Jews or by both it is for you to decide and act accordingly.
If you are speaking as a Egyptian, then your land is occupied by Arabs and has to be freed.
...
Above is true for the most of Middle East and North African countries.

Alright so the Jews are also invaders of the people of the land they invaded when they came to the region. Im sure i can find a bunch of people still associating themselves with the ancient civilization you conquered. So where does your earlier statement logically stand in light of this?

Above is true for the most of Middle East and North African countries.

Wrong it applies to all countries. Because if you date back enough than each morcel of land exchanged hands and was occupied by a foreign settler. This notion, is still, most surprisingly, not hitting you in the head.

So, my argument is idiotic because I am not an idiot?

Does an idiotic statement imply an idiotic person?

Occupation lasted for so long that indigenous people forgot who they are (my heat off to Arabs, very clever move) and many think they are Arabs themselves.

Your hat your have been off if the Arab did try and oppress Jews and tried to force them into Islam, but they did not, unlike some of your European allies. The Arabs never tried to subjugate Jews into Islam, proof of that is the peaceful existence of Jews throughout the period of Arab and Ottoman rule of the area. This lone fact is clearly a thorn on your side when involved in the argument that Arabs and Muslims hate Jews. For clearly they did not, and there must have been something to cause this aggression between the two.

Today Jews are trying to free their land off occupiers. Are they wrong? Again, depends on who you ask.

Their land? Im sorry but you failed to answer a question of mine (one of so many i detail) that prompted you to answer whether the founding father of Zionism, Herzl, tried to buy off land from the Ottoman Sultan, land which was far from present day Israel. And if so, what kind of claim do u have, when your people were trying to find residence. And in so doesnt that fact alone deny you the right to say that you have a home already. Why buy a home when u already have one? Yep you have alot of clarification to do, and your past performance had been quite abysmal i say, you consistently failed to answer so many questions embedded in the discussion, you even numerously quite the discussion all together, which is more and more enticing me to not engage in conversation with you anymore, for it has been really uninteresting so far.

Hey, Jews did not start this war. Arabs did. Jews do not trust you anymore and living together is no longer possible.

Okay, very simple question, Why did Arabs start the war?

[TripolySunni]

Quick answers (cuz I know how his are gonna be).

Arabs started the War of 1948 to stop the ethnic cleansing and they came too late in my opinion as the cleansing had been going on for a very long time.

The Goal of the 1967 war Was to Conquer Arab lands then trade them for peace or recognition of israel as a state.

1973 the goal was to Win back Lost Arab lands (You can see how the standards are dropping).

And Now the Arabs are Negotiating israel and offering peace Solutions Which is a complete waste of time because Israel is the aggressor and the occupier so what the hell are they doing negotiating with them? Why Should Israel acept any solution or Arab preposition? At Least wait until They withdraw from all Arab occupied territories then Negotiate...

Stupid.

It Continues, The 2006-2008-2009 Arab wars were media wars against The resistance by branding them as traitors or Even Using Secterian Propaganda In Order to stop The spreading of a culture of resistance at the expense of the countries creating secterian problems on thier soil...

Stupider.

[tsedek]

Originally Posted by Zayn

I apologize for posting a source that occurred right after the fighting stopped. Surely, I should have waited for your military to manipulate reports as it did in Gaza or for the United States veto in the security council (paid for by Zionist donors) that whitewashes your involvement in the Jenin massacre.

I did a Google search for "Derrick Pounder, jenin" I found nothing saying that he admitted that there was no Jenin massacre. I did find this, though:

"Prof Derrick Pounder, who is part of an Amnesty International team granted access to Jenin, said he has seen bodies lying in the streets and received eyewitness accounts of civilian deaths...

He said: 'The truth will come out, as it has come out in Bosnia and Kosovo, as it has in other places where we've had these kinds of allegations.

'I must say that the evidence before us at the moment doesn't lead us to believe that the allegations are anything other than truthful and that therefore there are large numbers of civilian dead underneath these bulldozed and bombed ruins that we see.'

The professor said recovering the bodies would be difficult because many buildings collapsed during bombardment.

He said: 'We know there are families who were there and killed and buried.

'We were on the ruins yesterday and two elderly men came forward, each of them pointed to where their houses had been and one of them told us that 10 members of his family were buried under the rubble."

Of course, according to you, this man went back on everything he said and admitted that Israel is the most moral army on the planet that doesn't bomb, occupy, murder, and steal from others.



Taken from your link:

"The report was written without a visit to Jenin or the other Palestinian cities in question and it therefore relies completely on available resources and information, including submissions from five United Nations Member States and Observer Missions, documents in the public domain and papers submitted by non-governmental organizations. The Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs wrote to the Permanent Representative of Israel and the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations requesting them to submit information but only the latter did so. In the absence of a response from Israel, the United Nations has relied on public statements of Israeli officials and publicly available documents of the Government of Israel relevant to the request in resolution ES-10/10. "

Ah yes, a very thorough report conducted by people who never visited Jenin and relied on the sources of "member states" (Israeli military) for data. Really? This vindicates you? Go shoot yourself, racist.



No, this is what you get for resisting occupation in the face of an ideologically racist occupier who wants to usurp the land that you are on. The capital of terrorism is in Tel Aviv. You Zionists will never acknowledge the facts, for raw data does nothing but hurt you and you try your hardest to cover it up or buy the silence and praise of governments worldwide. Tell me, moral Zionist, why is it that the Zionist lobby has to spend so much time, effort, and cash in buying the interests of US lobbyists? It's because you have no moral, legal, or historical claim over Palestine nor do you have a case for your continued occupation of Palestinian land.



No ethnic cleansing? So what was al-Nakba all about? Why don't the moral, generous Israelis allow the owners of the land whose land was stolen by colonist Jews to return? Why does a Jewish majority matter in a land that is not Jewish? Why do you build walls, destroy Palestinian homes in Jerusalem, and build settlements upon the West Bank whilst expelling Palestinians? Why are Israeli Arabs met with high levels of discrimination in your society? Even your own leaders admit that Palestine was ethnically cleansed to make way for Jews. Zionism is racism, fool. Everybody knows this, and even Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu have said your policies mirror apartheid.

However, this is all malarkey, right? Pshaw, how do you reason with brainwashed bigots? Tough question.

Zayn, you can go on and on - about trying to prove your own right. The point is Israel did many wrongs and the "Arabs" (because of all nationalities) committed many wrongs. As long as you pretend "the Arabs" were like angels and the Israelis were the only ones committing crimes you can keep this forum and thread go on and on and on and on....

Soon as you are openminded enough to see the actual facts in which all of us committed crimes we will talk again.

Jenin is a 'clear' case. There was no massacre. What you want to believe.. go on: believe whatever you like. It doesn't change the facts. And - same goes for Israelis wanting to believe they're only angels and being attacked while not committing crimes.

Pity those generalizations keep us all in their hold.. this way we will NEVER know peace. Hate will go on and survive and we will keep on killing each other while blaming each other. Whatever. I'm just a simple soul and this is way above my head. The only difference is that I am willing to admit this and you........ are not.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by tsedek

Zayn, you can go on and on - about trying to prove your own right. The point is Israel did many wrongs and the "Arabs" (because of all nationalities) committed many wrongs. As long as you pretend "the Arabs" were like angels and the Israelis were the only ones committing crimes you can keep this forum and thread go on and on and on and on....

Soon as you are openminded enough to see the actual facts in which all of us committed crimes we will talk again.

Jenin is a 'clear' case. There was no massacre. What you want to believe.. go on: believe whatever you like. It doesn't change the facts. And - same goes for Israelis wanting to believe they're only angels and being attacked while not committing crimes.

Pity those generalizations keep us all in their hold.. this way we will NEVER know peace. Hate will go on and survive and we will keep on killing each other while blaming each other. Whatever. I'm just a simple soul and this is way above my head. The only difference is that I am willing to admit this and you........ are not.

Wait, so the racist Zionist is asking me, the one calling for a secular state for both Jews and Arabs, to be open-minded? Oh dear, I must have a misconception of what being open-minded is! Understand this, bigot--I'm not going to sit here and play games with you and entertain your racist ideology. You have failed to come to a defense of how your ideology isn't racist, and now you're crying about me not playing fair.

What are these "wrongs" that you want to accuse Palestinians of, bigot? Are we responsible for your Holocaust? Are we the ones who slaughtered you by the millions, put you in camps, and made you slaves? No, Zionist--you're the ones who came to Palestine to make it a Jewish state. The land was not Jewish, however; it was filled with Arabs and you had to do something about that, so you ethnically cleansed them. Ask Shlomo Ben Ami whether al-Nakba was ethnic cleansing or not, you dumb piece of sh*t.

Notice how in the face of evidence, you don't even try to find away to prove your point. You cannot. You didn't post this supposed backtracking by the professor because it never happened. In essence, you lied in order to try to make a point. Good job, bigot--you're doing your country, which is filled with murderers, thieves, and liars proud!

What's this talk of peace, you Zionist? You want peace while your terrorist leader is busy expanding settlements and denying the Palestinians a state to begin with? While your foreign minister is trying to ban talk of al-Nakba and introduce a loyalty oath? While your elected government denies the Palestinians democracy and murders children by the hundreds in Gaza? What a joke, you animal. If this is the peace you want, then I hope a Katyusha lands on your head and pounds some sense into it.

Good day, Zionist.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Arabs of Judea are as much indigenous to Judea as Jews of Arabia indigenous to Arabia.

Good day.

Excellent work--using things that happened in 500 AD, and not even in Palestine, as justification for murder, occupation, and theft in the year 2009. You still have not presented a moral, legal, logical, or ethical case for Zionism.

Zionism is racism. You are a Zionist, thus you are a bigot.

Good day.

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Excellent work--using things that happened in 500 AD, and not even in Palestine, as justification for murder, occupation, and theft in the year 2009. You still have not presented a moral, legal, logical, or ethical case for Zionism.

Zionism is racism. You are a Zionist, thus you are a bigot.

Good day.

Thank God Cameras were invented.

(A)


(B)


(I defenitly know this won't change some people's minds but at least it makes a good mood in the thread ).

[proIsrael-nonIsraeli]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

If your so morally diluted, it doesnt mean that everyone is.
So your excomunicating Israel from any wrong doing? Is that it?

First, leave my morals be. Listening lecture on morals coming from Arab and especially from Muslim is a joke.
Second, you started the war against Jews in 1948 and this fact alone excommunicates anything and everything you are getting or will ever get in response.
Either continue ripping what you have sewn or ask for peace and pray your offer will be accepted.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Alright so the Jews are also invaders of the people of the land they invaded when they came to the region. Im sure i can find a bunch of people still associating themselves with the ancient civilization you conquered. So where does your earlier statement logically stand in light of this?

Regarding former, I never stated otherwise.
Regarding latter, let me know when you do.
Regarding my statement (which one?), all of my statements are logical.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Wrong it applies to all countries. Because if you date back enough than each morcel of land exchanged hands and was occupied by a foreign settler. This notion, is still, most surprisingly, not hitting you in the head.

Nothing is wrong here. While your generic statement is true and it applies to all countries, we were talking about relationship between Jews and Arabs and your claims of Jews being occupiers of Israel, while in fact it Arabs who are occupiers of Judea. So, let's not drift off subject and cloud our minds with inconsequential.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Does an idiotic statement imply an idiotic person?

While you may not mean or realize this it always does.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Your hat your have been off if the Arab did try and oppress Jews and tried to force them into Islam, but they did not, unlike some of your European allies. The Arabs never tried to subjugate Jews into Islam, proof of that is the peaceful existence of Jews throughout the period of Arab and Ottoman rule of the area. This lone fact is clearly a thorn on your side when involved in the argument that Arabs and Muslims hate Jews. For clearly they did not, and there must have been something to cause this aggression between the two.

I may agree to a degree that Muslims did not try to convert infidels to Islam through force, or better yet, not the way Christian used force. But it does not change the fact that Muslims tried to convert infidels to Islam using humiliation. Weak submitted to Christian pressure or Muslim pressure. Jews remain Jews to this day. And do not try to tell me how well non-Muslims lived or live under Muslim rule. It is not for Muslims to decide. BTW, you can always discuss this subject with Christians of Judea/Samaria and especially Gaza. Or with Assyrian Christians of Iraq, or Coptic Christians of Egypt, or Baha'i of Iran, or ...
I am sure you can add much more all by yourself if you will put your mind into it.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Their land? Im sorry but you failed to answer a question of mine (one of so many i detail) that prompted you to answer whether the founding father of Zionism, Herzl, tried to buy off land from the Ottoman Sultan, land which was far from present day Israel. And if so, what kind of claim do u have, when your people were trying to find residence. And in so doesnt that fact alone deny you the right to say that you have a home already. Why buy a home when u already have one? Yep you have alot of clarification to do, and your past performance had been quite abysmal i say, you consistently failed to answer so many questions embedded in the discussion, you even numerously quite the discussion all together, which is more and more enticing me to not engage in conversation with you anymore, for it has been really uninteresting so far.

I am guessing you have some kind of valid point here I just cannot see what it is. You are going to have to be more specific. What far away land you are talking about and what did Herzl buy?

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Okay, very simple question, Why did Arabs start the war?

Very simple answer. I am not an Arab.

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by proIsrael-nonIsraeli

First, leave my morals be. Listening lecture on morals coming from Arab and especially from Muslim is a joke.

Now That is just totally Insulting, I Hope you won't repeat this Again Regardless of whether ur Angry or Emotional, Measure ur Words well before you utter them.

And Who Told you the Guy Is a Muslim? anyway I'll leave the reply to him.

[Zayn]

Posting a reminder that proisrael-nonisraeli still has not managed to concoct a moral case for Zionism.